UVA/UVB For Inside Tortoises

[Bryan]

Just wondering how many of you use UVA/UVB bulbs and how many just do UVA with a heat lamp?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I use Trex 160 watt flood type has UVB and heat.

 

[Bryan]

I use Trex 160 watt flood type has UVB and heat.

Wow that must be a hefty electric bill!

 

[terryo]

I use a 10.0 long tube UVB...no heat.

 

[Bryan]

I use a 10.0 long tube UVB...no heat.

10.0 huh? I picked up a 5.0 locally. How long have you been using the 10.0? I'm planning on placing an order on the 'net as locally the options are very slim. Anyone try UVA/UVB CFL's? How deep is your tank Terryo? Mine is around 16" and I believe they say that the 5.0 is only good for 12" from the bulb. Any idea if the 10.0 has a longer distance range? Thanks!

 

[Madkins007]

There is little benefit to using UVA bulbs without UVB output, so I am unsure why a keeper would bother. UVA helps with more natural behaviors, but offers little health benefit and does not help with vitamin D3 at all. And, of course, most heat lamps are infrared (IR), which also do not help with vitamin D production.

10.0 vs. 5.0 is a measure of how much UV there is at a given distance. While a 10.0 should do a longer range, it is really designed to be kept at about the 12" distance for animals with higher UV needs. Remember- long tubes produce UV in a cylinder as shown here: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm

In other words, there will be a narrow band of the highest UV output right under the bulb, and the levels will drop as you move from the line. Mounting it higher, even with a higher UV output, just means the that the drop off happens faster since you are making a different size cylinder of light.

With Red-foots, you probably are fine with the 5.0. If you want a bigger 'footprint', you could use a longer bulb. You can get a better result also from a simple aluminum reflector.

CFL's produce a very small UV footprint- if you mount it sideways it is not bad, but is throwing a lot of light in directions other than at the ground. If you use an aluminum reflector, some tested models actually make a small UVB spot that is too intense for most animals to be safe. CFLs are not generally recommended.

 

[Bryan]

There is little benefit to using UVA bulbs without UVB output, so I am unsure why a keeper would bother. UVA helps with more natural behaviors, but offers little health benefit and does not help with vitamin D3 at all. And, of course, most heat lamps are infrared (IR), which also do not help with vitamin D production.

10.0 vs. 5.0 is a measure of how much UV there is at a given distance. While a 10.0 should do a longer range, it is really designed to be kept at about the 12" distance for animals with higher UV needs. Remember- long tubes produce UV in a cylinder as shown here: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm

In other words, there will be a narrow band of the highest UV output right under the bulb, and the levels will drop as you move from the line. Mounting it higher, even with a higher UV output, just means the that the drop off happens faster since you are making a different size cylinder of light.

With Red-foots, you probably are fine with the 5.0. If you want a bigger 'footprint', you could use a longer bulb. You can get a better result also from a simple aluminum reflector.

CFL's produce a very small UV footprint- if you mount it sideways it is not bad, but is throwing a lot of light in directions other than at the ground. If you use an aluminum reflector, some tested models actually make a small UVB spot that is too intense for most animals to be safe. CFLs are not generally recommended.

As I stated Mark they would be roughly 16" from the light source. Well outside the 12" range of the 5UVB bulb. Would you not agree that it'd be better to go with the 10? Do you have any additional info on the CFLs?

 

[mctlong]

Here's some additional info on CFLs.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-summary.htm

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Just wondering how many of you use UVA/UVB bulbs and how many just do UVA with a heat lamp?

Do you really want to open this "can-a-worms" Bryan?

You know if I use them or not!

NERD

 

[terryo]

When I first started using Terry K's care sheet, it said a long tube light. When I bought the long tube it was a 5.0 (assuming that's what he meant), because I use planted vivariums for all my boxies when they have to come inside for the winter, and they all have a long tube UVB (and a heat emitter) according to the size of their tank. Pio was in a 55 gal. tank at the time. When I upgraded to a 75 gal. I got the 10.0. Later on when there was a discussion about using UVB - UVA I realized that he must have used a plain long tube light with no UVA or UVB. But I kept the one with that I had as I figured it couldn't hurt, since there are many breeders who recommend using UVB for their tortoises.

---

 

[Bryan]

Just wondering how many of you use UVA/UVB bulbs and how many just do UVA with a heat lamp?

Do you really want to open this "can-a-worms" Bryan?

You know if I use them or not!

NERD

I guess I do Terry. I have no question about your success with your methods, however I have always believed that there's more than 1 way to skin a cat. And while your way maybe superb in Kentucky or in a number of other places it may not be ideal everywhere. There are many people on here that also have a lot of experience and I am always willing to listen to what they have to say instead of putting my eggs in one basket so to speak. But since I've gotten your attention what type of a heat lamp do you use?

 

[Madkins007]

Bryan- the thing is, you are confusing wattage for UVB levels.

How far a bulb throws its light is a function of wattage, and with long tubes, length equals wattage. If you want the light to go further, you need a higher wattage. No matter how much UVB is produced, an 18" long bulb will only throw the UVB about 16-18". This means that if you park it 16" high, it won't throw enough UVB to the side to make a big basking spot under the bulb. To get a bigger basking spot, you need a more powerful wattage.

The UVB ratings are basically how many UVB rays it throws out per inch- a 10.0 throws twice as many as a 5.0- but it does not throw them any further.


Just FYI- I use ceramic emitters for local heating, a room heater for the ambient heating, and have some soil cables (Flex-Watt) coming so I can heat the soil and cut back on the room heater.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan- the thing is, you are confusing wattage for UVB levels.

How far a bulb throws its light is a function of wattage, and with long tubes, length equals wattage. If you want the light to go further, you need a higher wattage. No matter how much UVB is produced, an 18" long bulb will only throw the UVB about 16-18". This means that if you park it 16" high, it won't throw enough UVB to the side to make a big basking spot under the bulb. To get a bigger basking spot, you need a more powerful wattage.

The UVB ratings are basically how many UVB rays it throws out per inch- a 10.0 throws twice as many as a 5.0- but it does not throw them any further.


Just FYI- I use ceramic emitters for local heating, a room heater for the ambient heating, and have some soil cables (Flex-Watt) coming so I can heat the soil and cut back on the room heater.

I am most certainly a novice when it comes to UVB, however the info that I've read says that 5.0 is good for 12" from the bulb (downward) while 10 is good for up to 20" IIRC. I understand what you mean about it only covering the area that it is directly over, that is my main intent at this point. I won't have UVB throughout the enclosure in case it is something that they don't want and 10.0 from what I've read is generally speaking too high for RF's.

 

[Madkins007]

All they are saying is that there is measureable UVB at those distances, not necessarily a useful level. They are not mentioning that the UVB at 20" is only about 5% of the total. Zoomed is a good company in many ways, but it suffers from 'marketing speak' as much as other companies do.

(For example, you'll notice that they say 10.0, 8.0 and 5.0- but not what those numbers mean using lighting industry standard terms- they basically just made them up.)

You can certainly use a 10.0, or even a 5.0 at 16"- it is just best to use a low UVB bulb at the right height for the best results is all.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I use Trex 160 watt flood type has UVB and heat.

Wow that must be a hefty electric bill!

I have 27 chelonia, so my electric bill is high no matter what. If I had a Redfoot I would not worry about UVB in the house. I personally believe that an hour or 2 outside covers the UVb thing.
I have several habitats that don't have any UVB at all. Some species get it from their food. Some species like Redfoots come from a place where it is normally dark and gloomy, so UVB isn't necessary I guess.
My electric bill is consistently $300 or so a month, several habitats have Trex 100 watt bulbs, some have Trex 160 watt and some have no bulb at all...well, a 100 watt incandescent basking bulb

 

[Madkins007]

I have 27 chelonia, so my electric bill is high no matter what. If I had a Redfoot I would not worry about UVB in the house. I personally believe that an hour or 2 outside covers the UVb thing.
I have several habitats that don't have any UVB at all. Some species get it from their food. Some species like Redfoots come from a place where it is normally dark and gloomy, so UVB isn't necessary I guess.
My electric bill is consistently $300 or so a month, several habitats have Trex 100 watt bulbs, some have Trex 160 watt and some have no bulb at all...well, a 100 watt incandescent basking bulb

I used to be in the 'no UVB camp', but more and more, from experience, talking to other experts and breeders, and research, I think at least some UVB is helpful to all ages of Red-foots.

We often ask the question "do Red-foots NEED UVB", and I think that is the wrong way to put it. I think the question should be "do Red-foots BENEFIT enough from an appropriate level of UVB to justify the cost?" I think there is enough evidence that the answer to this is 'yes' that a low level of UVB should be considered a 'best practices standard' for Red-foot care.

To cite my sources for this opinion would be to list over a dozen well-respected established keeper/breeders (a few of which sometimes post on these forums), half a dozen books, and more websites and online articles than I want to count.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I believe you are misunderstanding me, altho I know I wasn't clear...I put most of my chelonia outside daily. Out in the morning and back in at night. I think they all get UVB that way and it saves the money on a bulb. I haven't researched this it just seemed to make sense. I know they all need UVB...this is just the way I do it. And I'd rather move them in and out then spend $50 on a UVB bulb...and I don't keep Redfoots. The animals I am moving in and out are Sulcata and Hermanni and other species...

 

[Bryan]

I believe you are misunderstanding me, altho I know I wasn't clear...I put most of my chelonia outside daily. Out in the morning and back in at night. I think they all get UVB that way and it saves the money on a bulb. I haven't researched this it just seemed to make sense. I know they all need UVB...this is just the way I do it. And I'd rather move them in and out then spend $50 on a UVB bulb...and I don't keep Redfoots. The animals I am moving in and out are Sulcata and Hermanni and other species...

Ideally I'd have them outdoors all day to let them get it the natural way, however I am often times not around when the highest levels of UV rays are out. They usually catch a little sun very late in the day, that's about it except for weekends.

 

[Madkins007]

Maggie- I did misunderstand, sorry! I saw the bit about outside placements, and the bit about Red-foots from dark areas and went the wrong direction.

My apologies!