Variety question

[ChiKat]

I have a RT hatchling and I know a good variety of lettuce/weeds/flowers is the best diet for a tortoise.
But how wide of a variety do they need each week? I was buying an organic spring mix for Nelson but there were only a few types of lettuce in there that were good for him (the spring mix thread opened my eyes to that!)
My problem is that greens at the store come in such large bundles, and Nelson is tiny! If I were to buy maybe 2 different types of greens a week, for example endive and radicchio one week, turnip and escarole the next, etc. (and then supplement with weeds as well) would that give him enough variety?

I'm also going to be ordering seeds to plant. At home Nelson had a huge field full of dandelion, common and English plantain, and clover. At my apartment at school I'm having trouble finding weeds that haven't been walked on, are far enough away from the street, untreated, etc.
I have some weeds at home that I dug up and planted in pots so he'll have some good weeds in the winter.

 

[dmmj]

To be honest I don't know if turtles and tortoises require variety. In the wild they would prob eat the same thing over and over if it was readily avaiable. Of course I do feed my a variety of foods that I grow myself so I am a little prejudice towards that topic.

 

[Yvonne G]

I recently read something about tortoises in the wild, and now I can't find it. My memory being not as good as it should be, I can't recall the actual statistics, but the article said that wild desert tortoises find hundreds of different types of plants to eat.

They might sit at a particular clump of "food" and eat their fill, but they wander over a large territory eating and walking, eating and walking.

When we say you should feed your tortoise a variety of different foods, it doesn't necessarily have to be all at the same feeding. With very small tortoises the food usually goes bad before it is all eaten up. I suggest you buy one head or bunch of something, or one small bag of Spring Mix and feed that until its gone or gone bad. Then buy something else. If you supplement what you buy with weeds from outside, your "variety" will be good enough.

Yvonne

 

[ChiKat]

That's exactly what I wanted to know, thanks Yvonne!! I will buy a head or two a week. I wasn't sure if they needed a wider variety weekly.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I do what Yvonne suggests. I always have spring mix in the house. We also eat it so that helps. I rotate brands and am familiar with the ingredients so I get one that is very varied. In addition, I buy 0-2 heads of greens, rotating through many of them. For awhile I grew some trays of seeds, but I killed them. It was so nice to have the little sprouts as salad toppers though (never grew too much in my apartment with the cold cloudy weather here). Some things you may be able to find in bulk, or in smaller quantities. But yes, an average week I throw out more of the greens besides the spring mix than the little guy eats. I think the key is to grow things if you can! Variety I take to mean over time. Some people disagree though.

I think that in the wild they may happen upon something, that will be all they will eat that day, and so it repeats. I can get greens to last 7-10 days if I am lucky. If you can, find out when produce is delivered to a grocery store and buy on that day. I also tend to shop at the specialty stores so I can get organic, it's fresher, and more selection of greens like dandelion. I never buy the greens that are also in the spring mix, so then I take full advantage of that. Off the top of my head I buy dandelion, mustard greens, radish greens, squash blossoms, squash, small amounts of kale, turnip greens, collard greens, etc. Usually the greens I buy will be higher in oxalic acid, but because the lettuces are lower, it balances out. If you shop around, hopefully you can find spring mix that has 6-10+ ingredients.

You can buy all sorts of seeds online, organic potting soil, and even cat litter pans. I had mine on a kitchen windowsill. Hopefully I can try again soon. They went downhill when I put them outside for summer, from alternating too little and too much water.

 

[ChiKat]

Thank you so much Kate!! I thought I found a great organic spring mix but it turns out it had a lot of mizuna in it I was eating much more of the spring mix than poor Nelson could.
I think I will look for a good spring mix and then also buy a head or two of a good lettuce such as endive or turnip greens.

 

[tortoisenerd]

What's wrong with mizuna? I thought it's more weedy than the other lettuces. As long as the spring mix doesn't already have curly endive, then that sounds good (don't buy Belgium endive). Around me they sell spring mix for $6.99 a pound bulk in either the produce section or at the salad bar. I can pick up a fresh handful every few days if I don't want to share a bag with the little guy.

 

[Stazz]

Why not curly endive Kate?Apparently mizuna has oxalic acid in it??

 

[Crazy1]

Kate, I think there is some confusion here.
mizuna is not a lettuce.
Mizuna is a mild mustard green. Also known as Spider Mustard, its scientific name is Brassica rapa, which indicates it is related to broccoli and cabbage, with similar nutritional value. And like other brassica vegetables, it contains glucosinolates (causing goiters) vitamin C, folic acid, and antioxidants.

Curly endive is fine for torts it is a cultivated form in the Asteraceae (aster) family.

 

[Stazz]

Ahaaaaa I see !!! few thought that was going to be another one I kicked myself for ! But I haven't found the curly endive for months, so that would be ok if it WAS bad, phew !

 

[Crazy1]

Stace I don't understand your question "so that would be ok if it WAS bad? There are toxic and poison plants those are BAD!
Mizuna is a mustard and as such has glucosinolates but fed in moderation it can be a good part of a varied diet.
But NO belgian endive

 

[Stazz]

LOL RObs, sorry, I was typing so fast that I realize I didn't make sense !!!
I meant that IF the curly endive was bad, that would be another one I kick myself for, but its not bad, so its ok Get it, Mizuna ok in moderation, but NO belgian yucky endive !

 

[Seiryu]

Can you tell the difference between belgian and regular endive? I've still yet to find a spring mix here that even has endive. I found one that listed it, but not one piece was in there.

So I was just curious if at the produce store, it would say Belgian endive if it was, or just endive. If just "endive" then how do I tell the difference?

 

[Crazy1]

Rob I don't think they would put Belgian endive in spring mix. It is more expensive than the other leaf endive/chicorys because of how it is grown. And you would notice the broad white or really creamy looking leaf.
Usually Belgian Endive is listed as such as the cost is different to what they list as just Endive.
So here is some pics to help you out.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I thought it was a lettuce as my spring mix has it in it. Sorry! I think it's less than 10% Mizuna, so probably fine? Thanks so much for the info! Only one of the brands I get has it too. I wouldn't buy curly endive as the spring mix I get already has it in it (listed as frisee), and I don't usually double up on ingredients. Up to you though. I find enough variety so I don't buy things separate that are already in spring mix.

 

[Madkins007]

Some other ways to get good value for variety would be to get the 'end of the day' stuff from the farmer's market or a salad bar. The BEST way is to eat a lot of greens yourself eat what the torts don't finish.

When my guys were younger, I worked hard to keep the greens fresh for two weeks (I know there are some posts about that around here somewhere still), but even ignoring that, most greens are so cheap that tossing some of it is not really a big deal. Heck, when you make yourself a salad, just look at all the stuff you toss out!

 

[tortoisenerd]

Agree with Madkins! I throw out more of the non spring mix stuff than my tort eats, by a long shot. Overall, he gets good variety and I still don't spend too much money. Not much you can do with produce as far as giving it to someone who doesn't have enough food (like you could easily do for canned goods), but I've gotten over feeling bad about it. So much of produce is waste anyways.

 

[Malaefic]

Rob I don't think they would put Belgian endive in spring mix. It is more expensive than the other leaf endive/chicorys because of how it is grown. And you would notice the broad white or really creamy looking leaf.
Usually Belgian Endive is listed as such as the cost is different to what they list as just Endive.
So here is some pics to help you out.

I know this thread is old but it just cleared up this confusion I’m having about Endives
I see all 3 types of vegetables labeled as Endives and it drives me crazy because I can never figure out which is which since I get both the Curly Endive which I think they call it Chicory too.

Btw, can anyone enlighten me why is it not good to feed my torts Belgian Endives?

 

[Madortoise]

I've been feeding Trader Joe's brand of spring mix or Natural Valley's. They do often put spinach in them so I separate them out. Penelope used to love the curly endive but now that she discovered clovers and mallows in abundance in her space, she prefers those tasty weeds over prepared food in a bag.

 

[Madkins007]

Wow- this is one of those things that sounds simple, but gets weird as you dig into it.

First of all, there is a type of greens called CHICORY. It includes all of the types of endive (red, French, belgium, 'sugarloaf', etc.) as well as Radicchio and chickory.

Overall, chickories look like good tortoise food- about a 2:1 calcium/phosphorous ratio, good vitamin load, good fiber numbers, etc. and relatively low in oxalates (0.21g/100 grams of food compared to spinach's 0.68, 'plain' endive is about .11g/100g oxalic acid).

Belgium endive, which is called a lot of other things, like witloof (white leaf) is the 'veal' of lettuces. It is raised and shipped in very low light making a tender and mild flavor. It has almost no nutrients in it since it got so little light, and it has a Ca: P of 0.7:1. I cannot find the oxalates level, but they tend to cause a grittiness or bitterness that witloof does not seem to have.

I'd avoid it on the basis of cost and low nutrient levels, but I don't see anything harmful in it- anyone have any different info?

It is not a Brassica and does not seem to have much of the Glucosinolate that can lead to goiters.

By the way- completely avoiding brassicas and glucosinolates is not a good idea- they provide a natural defense against cancer- just don't make them a main food item. Variety, variety, variety.

Besides- the goiter thing is overrated in most tortoises. The history of that concern seems to trace back to keeping giant tortoises with cabbage as the staple food. It turns out that much of their native diet is high in iodine, etc. and when fed on Brassicas and foods low in iodine and high in glucosinolates, the giants developed goiters on their necks.

At the same time, most keepers of Med. species of tortoises were also using cabbage as a main food- they were cheap and otherwise pretty nutritious- and there are few reports of goiter in them.

It is not the presence of ANY glucosinolates that is the problem, it is the excess amount of the stuff.