VERY sudden problems with the ability to walk. (updated 2/11)

[Kobe]

New here, so my apologies if I'm not doing this correctly. I've had my Sulcata, Kobe, for 13 and a half years and what happened a little under 24 hours ago is really concerning me. Long post, so bare with me. I'll keep this post to the problem at hand, and give a brief history of Kobe in the comments.

Last night Kobe was happily roaming around, eating a normal dinner of dried orchard grass and washed dandelion greens. Then suddenly, as though someone flipped a switch, his walking became very bizarre and has still not gone back to normal. It's as though his front legs aren't cooperating with one another preventing him from walking normally. At times, his front right leg would seem to just stop working and would get caught under his shell until he corrected it.

The immediate onset is what really concerns me. I don't believe he ate anything out of the ordinary, as this meal was from the same batch as previous meals. He is still able to get where he wants to go, but I have never seen him walk with such struggle. Had I not seen the transition between normal walking and labored walking, I would have assumed an injury. That just doesn't seem likely unless it was accidentally self inflicted like a strained muscle.

Over the past 24 hours things have been improving, but are certainly not back to normal. He does not seem sick, as his appetite is still very strong. He is always a little less active in winter months, so nothing out of the ordinary there. He is still very perky when I pick him up. I can grab all his limbs and gently pull and wiggle them without him drawing them into his shell. This would not be the case if they were injured. He has been blinking more than usual, but no other symptoms of an eye/respiratory tract infection.

This is SUCH a mystery to me! Any advice would be very much appreciated! I'm really worried

 

[Heather H]

Hi and welcome. I can't help you but someone will. Where are you located? Indoor or outdoor enclosure? Can you post pics of enclosure?

 

[Kobe]

Kobe is very small for his age, and honestly, I'm not 100% certain he's a boy. I got Kobe as a gift when he was just past hatching stage and I was still quite young. Admittedly, he was not fed a proper diet and given adequate lighting until I got old enough to know better.. and the internet became a thing

Romaine and not-so-nutritious greens were the diet staple for many years. My mom loves Kobe and cared for him while I was away at college. He has always been given free range of the house and sun porch, so space was never an issue. Lighting would have been fine in warmer months but artificial UVB was not provided in the winter months.

I now have had Kobe back for several years and got up to speed on proper care. He now is fed a diet of mainly grasses and weeds. He has a PowerSun 160W UVB/basking lamp. He still has free range of my apartment with access to 'turtle areas' throughout (hide box, basking, heat at night, water for soaking, etc).

Even though diet and housing wasn't optimal when he was younger, he has always been a good eater, active, happy and friendly. He has been sick once with an upper respiratory tract infection which was treated and caused no lasting problems. He is still nowhere near 'normal' size, but growing much faster now (about 9.5" in length). At his last x-ray 2 years ago I was told his bones have good density, although he does exhibit pyramiding.

Please feel free to let me know if you'd like any more info!!

 

[dmmj]

A sudden inability to walk should be very worisome. Injury seems to be rulld out, that leaves poisin/ingestion of something, or some type of brain injury, stroke, or seizure.So dos he live outside? could he have gotten hold of something in the yard? has a neighbor sprayed anything? Remember another animal could have dropped something, and you did not see it. You mentioned more blinking, Does he seem to have trouble blinking, only one eye winking, or can't easily open/close eyes? ?I woyld seriously consider a vet visit.

 

[Heather H]

Could be have eaten something off the floor. Licked a cleaner?

 

[Heather H]

Does he stay inside always? Is he going to the bathroom?

 

[Heather H]

I agree with dmmj . Hope he gets better soon. I would keep him contained and warm until this is figured out.

 

[leigti]

If he was a person I would say that he had a stroke or TIA or transient ischemic attack. it is like a mini stroke that improves quickly. it possibly could be some sort of poison also but if he ate the same stuff before and it didn't affect him then I would say that is less of a possibility. also the blinking makes me feel that it could be a stroke or TIA. If it is a TIA then he will probably recover completely in a little bit.

 

[Kobe]

I'm from Michigan so he has been inside for several months. I'm trying to think of anything toxic he could have gotten into. I guess residue from a cleaner like disinfecting wipes isn't out of the question. He has been peeing when I soak him, and a stool today was looser, but not liquid.

 

[leigti]

I am not a vet but it really sounds like a neurological issue to me. There are several events on this forum hopefully they will chime in soon with their opinions.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Read posts that talk about tortoises allowed to roam around inside a home. They seldom go very well. Welcome and good luck.

 

[HLogic]

Is there a chance it was chilled suddenly or substantially? I have seen this behavior in torts that were exposed to temps below 40.

 

[Yvonne G]

It might also be related to MBD. If the tortoise is always in the house and doesn't spend much time under the UVB light, and is not eating calcium-rich foods, his bones might be weak, and as he gets heavier, it's harder to support himself.

 

[Heather H]

hi how is he doing today?

 

[Kobe]

So I brought Kobe to the vet yesterday. He was very honest in that his knowledge base was more limited to reptiles native to Michigan, and has not had a great deal of interaction with desert tortoises. However, he is the only vet within 50 miles with a notable herpetology background. He believes the sudden loss of coordination in the front limbs is dietary. He believes a diet of grasses and dark leafy weeds is not varied enough, in that in the wild they would be opportunistic eaters, and need a little protein and fruit every now and then. He recommended 1/2 tsp canned cat food every week, thinking the problem may be uric acid in the joints, or a form of gout. I'm hesitant with this advice, but can understand the logic behind it.

I question whether something like gout would cause such a rapid onset of symptoms. Literally walking fine one moment, then significant front-leg coordination trouble the next. I was also under the impression that gout is typically caused by too much protein, which Kobe gets virtually none.

The vet seemed quite certain it was not a neurological problem. He still has function of all limbs, just lacking coordination. He can still get where he wants to go, albeit slower. He still has good strength in all limbs and does not seem to be in any pain. He is still eating very well, quite possibly even more than normal. 2 bowel movements today, both solid, one with a few drops of liquid at the end. I have been soaking him twice+ daily since symptoms occurred. He is urinating more frequently, but this could correlate with more frequent soakings.

Quite honestly I'm still puzzled. Spending the time and money to get another professional opinion is certainly not out of the question, but any more info/advice I can get here would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!!!!

 

[wellington]

See if you can get a video of him walking and post it here. I'm afraid you probably were not given the best advice from the vet.
I would not feed fruit or cat food. You may also try some hydrotherapy. I did this for one of my leopards I got from CL that could not walk good. Not sure if it will help yours but couldn't hurt. In the soaks, make it deep enough that he has to swim/move his legs. I would hold mine between the front legs with two fingers and just a little out of the water so he didn't have to fight to keep her head out of the water but so,she would paddle all her legs. Between that, a much large enclosure and natural substrate to walk on, she now walks just fine. Good luck and post that vid.

 

[Kobe]

Sounds good, I've stitched 2 movies together. The first part is shortly after the onset of symptoms... you can see the right leg getting 'caught' as he's trying to move. The second part was just taken a few moments ago, roughly 3 days after the onset of symptoms. Improvements have been made, but this is not a normal gait for Kobe. I've never seen him require pause between each step.

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

Sounds good, I've stitched 2 movies together. The first part is shortly after the onset of symptoms... you can see the right leg getting 'caught' as he's trying to move. The second part was just taken a few moments ago, roughly 3 days after the onset of symptoms. Improvements have been made, but this is not a normal gait for Kobe. I've never seen him require pause between each step.

he has metabolic bone disease, this is there is does not get enough UVB and he becomes deformed. does he get UVB light and does he have his own heated enclosure or does he live on the house floor?

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

he should not be fed any canned cat food, thats way to much protein. he should get all his food from the food that he eats. please read trigs entire care sheet. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

Sounds good, I've stitched 2 movies together. The first part is shortly after the onset of symptoms... you can see the right leg getting 'caught' as he's trying to move. The second part was just taken a few moments ago, roughly 3 days after the onset of symptoms. Improvements have been made, but this is not a normal gait for Kobe. I've never seen him require pause between each step.

he really should not be let out around the house he will eat something he's not suppose to.