weight?

[Coldliz]

I bought a scale today. Just a little ounce/gram scale. Because last time I was at the vet he said that my tort had lost some weight. Well, I weighed her and she was about 1.5 ounces. She's still losing!!! I have no idea why. She eats everyday but I'm concerned that she isn't eating enough and I don't know how to get her to eat more. She's been active everyday for a few hours a day. "Seems" healthy but obviously something isn't right because of the weight loss. Any suggestions? Also, I noticed if I tap on her shell it sounds hollow. Is this normal? Should it sound more solid? Thanks for any help and suggestions.
It seems to me that no matter what I do and how hard I try I just can't get it right and I'm so frustrated.

 

[Chucky]

Just a thought, is she getting enough water intake and are you soaking here? How much is she eating and what?

 

[AWAaviatrix]

I bought a scale today. Just a little ounce/gram scale. Because last time I was at the vet he said that my tort had lost some weight. Well, I weighed her and she was about 1.5 ounces. She's still losing!!! I have no idea why. She eats everyday but I'm concerned that she isn't eating enough and I don't know how to get her to eat more. She's been active everyday for a few hours a day. "Seems" healthy but obviously something isn't right because of the weight loss. Any suggestions? Also, I noticed if I tap on her shell it sounds hollow. Is this normal? Should it sound more solid? Thanks for any help and suggestions.
It seems to me that no matter what I do and how hard I try I just can't get it right and I'm so frustrated.

Some of these lil guys just have a hard time thriving. It isn't you.

With lil guys I was told by a few long time keepers to keep a bit warmer temperature at night. You can hang a black light bulb or red heat lamp bulb above/near his sleeping hide to provide the additional heat in that area without disturbing his sleep. Make sure you are chopping his food into tiny, tiny pieces so it is easier for him to eat. Soak him a few times a week to keep him hydrated. As soon as it gets warm enough outside get him in the sun.

Misty )

 

[Coldliz]

Just a thought, is she getting enough water intake and are you soaking here? How much is she eating and what?

I keep a shallow water dish in her enclosure and soak her 10-15 minutes 4-5 times a week.
She eats cactus, mustard greens, collard greens, kale, I've also given her Escarole and turnip greens. These are all rotated each week. I have grass I grow and clip it and add it to her greens. I give her about 1/4 a cup a day, she usually eats half to 3/4 of it. All of this is sprinkled with calcium usually 4 times a week.

 

[Coldliz]

Misty- I do have it warmer at night. I use an infrared red light so it doesn't disturbed my daughter because the enclosure is in her room. Daytime temps are in the 90's and nighttime low 80's. My house is a bit drafty so I've been doing this to make sure that she doesn't get too cold.

 

[Crazy1]

Melissa, I read back over some of your eailier threads. Did you get sparkles from the same place you got the other one from? What are you using for a uvb bulb? is it still the ReptilSun 5.0? How long do you leave this light on for?

You may need to vary her diet even more. I would use collard greens only occasionally maybe add some dandilions rose pedals or leaves, spring mix or leaf lettuce, just a little to wet her appitite. And succulants if you can. Does your calcium have D3 or phosphorus in it?
You might want to cut back on her soaks. Since torts tend to poo and urinate when they are soaked (which causes the loss of nutition when done too often) , 4-5 times a week may be too much. Also when you soak her try adding vitasol (bird vitamins) to her water. Try soaking 2 to 3 times a week for 15 minutes.

I know you had her checked and started treatment of pancu for worms then switched to parazap is this correct?
Have you had her rechecked for worms? Did they check for bacteria or protozoa?

Oh and I know you said she is now 1.5 oz or 42.52 g but how long is she? And you said she is still losing weight. How much has she lost in what amount of time?

 

[Jentortmom]

Melissa, Don't feel to horrible, I have a sulcata that I got back in november and I can not get him to grow..I have done everything. Vitamins, vitamins and more vitamins, bird vitamins in his soaks, outside time almost daily now, mixed foods every week, hay run through the coffee grinder, mazuri. Nothing will get him to grow, vet says he does know but he sees this frequently in sulcatas. So keep doing what you are doing and vary her diet and hopefully she will get on the right track.

 

[Coldliz]

Melissa, I read back over some of your eailier threads. Did you get sparkles from the same place you got the other one from? What are you using for a uvb bulb? is it still the ReptilSun 5.0? How long do you leave this light on for?

You may need to vary her diet even more. I would use collard greens only occasionally maybe add some dandilions rose pedals or leaves, spring mix or leaf lettuce, just a little to wet her appitite. And succulants if you can. Does your calcium have D3 or phosphorus in it?
You might want to cut back on her soaks. Since torts tend to poo and urinate when they are soaked (which causes the loss of nutition when done too often) , 4-5 times a week may be too much. Also when you soak her try adding vitasol (bird vitamins) to her water. Try soaking 2 to 3 times a week for 15 minutes.

I know you had her checked and started treatment of pancu for worms then switched to parazap is this correct?
Have you had her rechecked for worms? Did they check for bacteria or protozoa?

Oh and I know you said she is now 1.5 oz or 42.52 g but how long is she? And you said she is still losing weight. How much has she lost in what amount of time?

No, I didn't get her from the same place. The last one I bought from a pet store and this one I bought from a local reptile breeder. I am still using the RetiSun 5.0 uv bulb. I turn it on every morning at about 7:30 a.m. and it stays on until about 8:30p.m.
I had given her dandelion but my grocery stopped carrying it and I didn't want to ask them to order if just for me because I'm going to be moving next week. That's why I placed the order with Reptile Eats..so she could have the variety of things. But I didn't get that. I would love to give her some rose petals or hibiscus but I don't know where to get them. Succulents...what falls in this catagory?
My calcium does not have phosphorus or D3.
You are correct about the worms...I did use the parazap. I haven't had her rechecked for the worms. I've been checking her poo and i don't see a thing. No they did not check for bacteria.
She's lost approx: an ounce.

 

[Coldliz]

Melissa, Don't feel to horrible, I have a sulcata that I got back in november and I can not get him to grow..I have done everything. Vitamins, vitamins and more vitamins, bird vitamins in his soaks, outside time almost daily now, mixed foods every week, hay run through the coffee grinder, mazuri. Nothing will get him to grow, vet says he does know but he sees this frequently in sulcatas. So keep doing what you are doing and vary her diet and hopefully she will get on the right track.

Thanks. She really seemed to me that she was doing well. She's been more active during the day, her nose has healed, she looked good to me. I'm hoping she will be ok at least until it warms up and I can get her outside.

 

[Itort]

I would have her checked for bacteria, protozoa, and tapeworm type parazites. Panacur type wormer don't touch these bugs. How old is your uv bulb? Such a note, I use 8.0 bulbs on my stars which I understand have similar requirements to sulcattas as far as being arid grassland. Succulents are plants such as cactus, hens&chicks, euphorbias, and other dryland type plants.

 

[Coldliz]

ah, succulents, thanks. She does get cactus, its the first thing she goes for. Ive had the uv light about 5 months, probably time to change it huh? I'm planning on getting one of the uv heat bulbs. Just need the money.
I guess I'm going to have to make a trip to the vet. How do they test for bacteria? Poo sample?

 

[Itort]

I have one of the uv heat lamps, it's over my rescue rf right now because she seems to like basking under it (?) and seems ta stimulate her appetitate. I have'nt found out the uv output it yet but she get 3 hours a day under it. The test for bacteria and protozoa is a fecal, I think they use different stains and higher power on scope.

 

[Crazy1]

OK, gathering info so if there is anyone out there who has had a similar problem they can chime in.
Lost an ounce or 28.35 g over what period of time? That is a fairly large wt. loss in a little tort but not so much in a larger tort. If I am correct Sparkles is small, a hatchling correct? I don't think you told us how long Sparkle is?

Reptisun 5 is a fairly weak bulb for a sulcata. And she needs that to help her metabolize nutrients. If you can get her outside even for an hour or more on the weekends that might help.

She sounds as if she is eating ok, but is not getting the nutrients she needs. Or is being soaked too much and losing most of her nutrients? Try decreasing her soak times per week as I suggested and bump up her sunlight exposure and see if it helps. You should see some wt gain in a week or two even a gram or two or stabilization of wt, but no loss. If she loses any more wt I would be taking her back to the vet. Oh and one more thought since you just purchased the scale it may be the discrepancy between it and your vets scale and that she hasn't really lost that much wt. Also I would change it to grams as this is a smaller increment of wt and you will see even small differences. Remember 1 oz is equal to 28.35 grams

Now I'm not disputing the parazap. I have never used it. But a trip back to the vet for a gut culture and a fecal test might be in order just to rule this out.

1) My suggestions are; get her in as much sunlight as you can (even 1 or 2 hours per weekend more if able) or change her bulb to a Reptisun to 10.
2) Soak her in tepid water with Vitasol 2 to 3 times per 7 days for about 15 min. No more.
3) Weigh her every week, use the same day and the same time of day. This will help you get a good baseline.
3) Use the gram wt instead of oz. (smaller increments of measure will allow you to see smaller losses or gains)
5) Give her an even more varied diet. (If you need to order and not happy with http://www.reptileeats.com try http://www.reptigreens.com ) (Until you can get some growing or spring/summer gets here.) use green or red leaf lettuce, zucchini, shredded carrot, arugala, watercress from the grocery store for now if you have too. Succulents would be like jade plants or chicks and hens etc. or use Spider plants, wondering jew, Roses,
No chemicals or pesticides of course.
6) Loss of wt continues, get her to a vet. Ask for a gut culture for bacteria and protozoa and get another fecal done.

You could call your vet and ask them to weigh a quarter for you and tell you how much it weighs in grams. Then do the same with your scale. That way you will know how different your scale is from your vets.

Melissa Please understand I am no expert. These are just my thoughts on Sparkle and my understanding from your posts of your situation with her. And trying to put wt on my foster sulcata Squirt and my dealings with her.

 

[shannon74]

Speaking of succulents...hasn't someone said that aloe is good for torts? That is easy to come by and easy to grow, but I was not sure what was said about it.

 

[Itort]

I've heard pro and cons on it. Some say it's mildly poisonous but they base their info on domestic animals such as dogs and cats and to a lesser extent livestock. I look at as natural part of the habitat of old world torts and if they eat it no problem. To quote Jerry Fife in his book on Star tortoises : "Though this is listed by some as being a toxic plant, star tortoises due eat it. It has immunity enhancing properties and is also a laxative, antiseptic, and antifungal. It works on the thyroid, the pituitary gland, and the ovaries." I do give tese to my stars as a treat and would have no problem giving to other torts.

 

[Coldliz]

I went out and bought a T-Rex Active uv heat 100w flood bulb. One of the pet stores I go to had them on clearance for $11.25!! I turned it on, its been on for about half an hour and she went into her hide right after I turned it on. I did notice that temps dropped a few degrees though after I changed the bulb. I was using a 100 watt spot not a flood. How long should I leave the bulb on for everyday? A few hours or all day? plus the approx minimum distance suggested for the lamp is 12" mine about 15"...will this make a big difference? I have the rabbit cage setup and the only way to get it 12" is to have the lamp inside the enclosure.
I can't get her outside yet because its cold and snowing here. I did call the vet, the vet tech said she'd have the vet call me back but he hasn't as of yet.
The period of time for her weight loss is over a couple of months. The first time she was weighed she was 79 grams the about a month ago (when she had the nose problem) she weighed 71 grams.
I appreciate all of your help Robyn and others.
Oh, I just measured her...when you do that you measure the bottom (plastron) right? She measured 2 1/2"

 

[Crazy1]

I went out and bought a T-Rex Active uv heat 100w flood bulb. How long should I leave the bulb on for everyday? A few hours or all day? plus the approx minimum distance suggested for the lamp is 12" mine about 15"...will this make a big difference? I have the rabbit cage setup and the only way to get it 12" is to have the lamp inside the enclosure.

The period of time for her weight loss is over a couple of months. The first time she was weighed she was 79 grams the about a month ago (when she had the nose problem) she weighed 71 grams.

Oh, I just measured her...when you do that you measure the bottom (plastron) right? She measured 2 1/2"

Good work Melissa, I know this can be nerve racking.

Is your new bulb the spiral kind or like a regular floodlamp?
I have a T-Rex 100 watt UVB flood lamp. I have it posted about 14 inches above the torts. they shyed away from it at first now they love sitting under it. Just make sure you maintain her basking temps right under the light. I leave my light on for 10 to 12 hours a day. I also have heat lamps so their ambiant air temps stay constant I use a Rehostat. Love them they just turn your heat lamps on and off to keep them at a certain temp which you set. Does not work for the new UVB +heat lamps.
Here is a good site for uvb output and differeance between heat and light.
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/mercuryvapourlamps.htm
http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/mega-ray-narrow-flood-report.htm
http://www.anapsid.org/liteheat.html


That seems like a lot of wt in a short time but then your scale is new and is not the same as the vets so the weight difference may not be the same. Not all scales are equal.

Re: Nematode Parasites- Internal worms and parasites.
http://www.ukchelonia.info/testudo/articles/divers1.htm
The above is referenced to Testudo but I figure it would be similar for any Chelonian
My vet did a culture straight from the stomach.

Yes the straight plastron lenght. Measuring your tort
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/measuring.htm

Aloe plants I give them to my torts but only as a treat as they tend to cause loose stools if given too much or too often.

I'm gald you contacted the vet hopefully he will return your call soon.

 

[Sulcata Lover]

Hey Everyone,
Its sounds like your doing everything right to me. I think that some Sulcatas just grow faster than others. That being said, they should still show a nice steady growth. I also have a young Sulcata that doesnt want to grow. he is about 2.5 years old and weighs 6.2 oz or 176 grams. The interesting thing is the breeder that i got him from still has a few left from that clutch. He says they are all roughly 170-185 grams. I think its in their genes! I know that sounds weird, but of all the reearch Ive done, this is a very common problem that no one has an answer for. Ive been told by other keepers that theirs didnt really show alot of growth until the 3rd or 4th year. Now as far as your little one, he shouldnt be losing weight. I mean its going to fluctuate up a gram down a gram, but i believe you said he had lost an ounce? Thats kind of alot for such a little guy. That hollow sounding shell you mentioned....Is it soft?? if it is, a trip to the vet would be a good idea.

 

[Coldliz]

It is nerve racking!! The bulb is regular 110w flood lamp, exactly the same as yours. I'm going to have to get a bigger dome for it though, I didn't realize it was such a big bulb. So you suggest leaving it on 10-12 hours a day then? I think the temp is going to be ok...it says 92 right now and thats right under the lamp.
The vet didn't call me back. We've had some bad weather today and a lot of places are closing early due to that, I'm not even sure if he was in today. Hopefully tomorrow. You're probably right about the scales being different, I didn't even consider that when I bought it. As soon as I get to talk to the vet I will ask him about the quarter thing...that was an excellent idea by the way. Hopefully what I think she lost isn't true.
I'm hoping this new lamp will help her. The added uv can't hurt that's for sure.
I'm going to cut back her soakings to 2-3 times a week. I was doing extra soakings due to changing her substrate from the coconut fiber to the hay. I was concerned about her dehydrating.
I really appreciate all of your help and suggestions. Thank You

 

[Coldliz]

Hey Everyone,
Its sounds like your doing everything right to me. I think that some Sulcatas just grow faster than others. That being said, they should still show a nice steady growth. I also have a young Sulcata that doesnt want to grow. he is about 2.5 years old and weighs 6.2 oz or 176 grams. The interesting thing is the breeder that i got him from still has a few left from that clutch. He says they are all roughly 170-185 grams. I think its in their genes! I know that sounds weird, but of all the reearch Ive done, this is a very common problem that no one has an answer for. Ive been told by other keepers that theirs didnt really show alot of growth until the 3rd or 4th year. Now as far as your little one, he shouldnt be losing weight. I mean its going to fluctuate up a gram down a gram, but i believe you said he had lost an ounce? Thats kind of alot for such a little guy. That hollow sounding shell you mentioned....Is it soft?? if it is, a trip to the vet would be a good idea.

The shell is hard, it's just if I lightly tap on it with my finger nail it sounds hollow. I'm going to try to get to the vet as soon as I can but the weather is bad and I'm in the process of moving..ugh!
It's interesting that these little guys seem to have this problem. I'm going to keep a close eye on her the next few days and see if the new lamp seems to help her at all. It says you should see immediate increase in appetite and activity. So far she has just slept, but she is right under it soaking the uv rays so thats good.