What is wrong with my Hermann's?

[Mr.Puff]

Sherman has been acting kind of strange for part of the day. He will put his head in and out of his shell and kind of open and close his mouth. He seems to be rubbing against the side of his neck/head, but there is nothing there and it's pink. He has been rubbing his eyes since I got him. He also wanders around, kind of stumbling, and sometimes running like in a panic.

Since noticing this odd behavior I figured he might have some kind of illness and increased the temperature in his cage. I also figured he might be allergic to the Reptisafe I have been putting in his water. Therefore, I soaked him in fresh water and let him drink some.

Do tortoises act like this when the temperature is too hot? He hasn't been eating for several days... maybe he is sick? He did eat some moss, which I removed completely from his cage, and some sand (I have kept him very hydrated because of this).

The substrate is a 60% coconut coir 40% sand mix. The temperatures in the hot spot are about 93.4 F indirectly and 101 F directly on the thermometer. His cold side is about 78 F. The temperature at night is around 85 F because I think he might be ill. I'm using an under tank pad, a red light, a halogen light, and a UV light.

Thanks,
John

 

[egyptiandan]

It sounds like the sand in the substrate is irrating him. I'd change the substrate to either just coir or coir and organic topsoil.
Your temperatures during the day are fine, but I'd turn the heat pad off. It would also be good to let him cool down at night, so no heat at night. 65 to 70F at night is just fine.

Danny

 

[Mr.Puff]

Hey Danny,

He was raised on this substrate. I have only had him a week... I'm thinking all of the stress from his new environment weakened him and he now has pneumonia. He really isn't blowing bubbles from his nose, but he did blow some from his mouth. The poor guy has had labored breathing since I got him, and has become increasingly more lethargic. I'm going to keep giving him daily warm baths and hope that this passes, but I have read around and the general outcome doesn't look good.

--John

 

[Yvonne G]

Opening their mouth in a gasping-like motion is an indication of a respiratory infection. His actions are also indicative of something wrong with the substrate, though. Do you moisten it? It could be too dry.

Yvonne

 

[Mr.Puff]

Yvonne,

I'm using the same stuff that his breeder used. At first I was using coconut bark, but I figured that it may have been causing his hunger strike.

I like to keep the humidity around 30 to 50% at the substrate level using my digital gauge. At the air level it stays around 35 to 45%. I accomplish this by mixing water in whenever the humidity drops too far.

--John

 

[Candy]

If you just got him a week ago why not take him to a vet to check him over? They have stuff that can help him?

 

[Mr.Puff]

I replaced his substrate with 100% coconut coir just to rule the sand out as a possible problem. We will see if this makes him better. The only good news I have is that he passed all of the sand and moss today . Now we know he isn't impacted.

--John

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi John:

I was a little worried that you weren't listening to us, because you answered two posts about substrate with the comment that you are using what the previous owner used. But I'm happy to see that you are trying something new as substrate. So you DID hear us after all!!

I don't keep Hermann's tortoises, but I have read here on the forum that quite a few keepers use aspen bedding for their Hermann's. If you don't notice any difference with the straight coir, then you might consider aspen. Its pretty clean and not dusty at all.

It might just be that your little tortoise is stressed from the move.

Keep us informed, and good luck with him.

Yvonne

 

[Mr.Puff]

Yvonne,

It seems that everyone uses sand and coir. My tortoise is just picky I guess . He is sleeping now, but I'm not sure whether it was the sand or the moss in his gut that was irritating him. Hopefully he will eat today. I'll try something else next time if he comtinues to throw a fit .

Thanks for all the help guys,
John

 

[Mr.Puff]

Ok, he passed more sand today. He is still acting strange though; walking in circles, not lifting himself up when he walks and just kind of scooting, trying to dig a burrow but not digging downward and just kind of flailing, and not eating. He is opening his eyes more, but shouldn't he at least be walking normally? I don't understand what is wrong.

 

[egyptiandan]

Sounds like the beginings of metabolic bone disease, MBD. Is his plastron soft?

Danny

 

[Mr.Puff]

Sounds like the beginings of metabolic bone disease, MBD. Is his plastron soft?

Danny

The last two times I held him for his soaks he did feel a little soft. I have always had a cuttlebone in his cage, Reptisafe in his water (I started adding it again), calcium on his food (which he has not been eating), and a UVB light (Zilla Desert 50 CFL). Should I lower the UVB light down some so he can absorb more of the rays? The bulb was flickering when I got it, but turning it off and on made it work normally. Poor Sherman .

--John

---

I lowered the UVB light. Is there a way to make him intake some calcium?

 

[egyptiandan]

Not unless he's eating on his own. It's extremely hard to tube feed a hatchling. To help perk him and get him the vitamins he needs, I would soak 3 times a week in water with Vitasol for birds by 8in1 in it. This is what I use for all my hatchlings for their first year of life.
It will help also to get to a vet, so they can prescribe injectionable calcium.
Hopefully all this will perk up his appetite.

Danny

 

[Mr.Puff]

Danny,

Sad news. Sherman passed away . Maybe he was sick when I got him? It happened really quickly. My other thread marks the time he stopped eating. After I lowered his UVB light earlier I went to give him a bath with calcium and phospherus because of the possible MBD. Sadly he had already passed on... I'm going to contact the breeder I bought him from and suggest he check his other hatchlings for illness. The bottom of his shell was dimpled (concave), but he was too young to show signs of being a male or female. Do you guys know of any illnesses that work this quickly?

Depressed,
John

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Danny,

Sad news. Sherman passed away . Maybe he was sick when I got him? It happened really quickly. My other thread marks the time he stopped eating. After I lowered his UVB light earlier I went to give him a bath with calcium and phosphorus because of the possible MBD. Sadly he had already passed on... I'm going to contact the breeder I bought him from and suggest he check his other hatchlings for illness. The bottom of his shell was dimpled (concave), but he was too young to show signs of being a male or female. Do you guys know of any illnesses that work this quickly?

Depressed,
John

It takes tortoises a long time to show symptoms of an illness so *generally* speaking by the time they show any symptoms they are already pretty sick. So it actually didn't happen as "quickly" as you are thinking it did.
I would expect that he came sick from the breeder and he needs to give you another tortoise. If it were me I would get my money back and use another breeder.
YOU need to use a proven substrate and not put Reptisafe/phosphorus in the water. Hatchlings are very fragile and you shouldn't go putting different stuff in the water that they are going to drink. Their metabolism's just are not made to handle stuff like that. Use the Vitasol that most of us use. Put your UVB light 12 to 14 inches from the substrate.
I am sorry this has happened to you, I know it is a hard lesson.

 

[Stazz]

John, Im really sorry to hear about Sherman, such sad news. Good advice given by Maggie though. I would also definitely go to the breeder and give him stick about selling you an already sick tort. Good luck !

 

[Mr.Puff]

Maggie,

I know, I feel terrible. Reptisafe is meant to be ingested along with the calcium/phosphorus blend. I never gave him anything not meant for torts. I changed the substrate per peoples advice. It was all in his best interest. The breeder was contacted so he can check his other torts for illness.

--John

 

[Isa]

I am sooo sorry to hear about your loss John
Good luck with the breeder.
Please, keep us updated.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm so sorry your little baby didn't make it, John.

Yvonne

 

[katesgoey]

Oh, I'm so sorry John. Our thoughts are with you.