What should leopard tort gain?

[Cherbear]

I bought a baby leopard tortoise at a reptile show on Sept. 18. I was told he was a month old. I started weighing him a couple weeks ago and he was 42 grams and 2 inches long. Since then he hasn't gained anything although he eats like a pig. That was one of the reasons I picked him was because he was eating when I was trying to pick one. Anyways my question is, how much should I expect on average for him to gain every week? Also, does this sound like the size of about a two month old?

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n31/cherbear71/LeopardTortoise002.jpg

 

[Tom]

Sounds about the right size for a two year old.

Weight/size gain is highly variable. Some hardly grow at all while others practically sprout before your eyes. I've found in the last few months that if they are super hydrated, have their shell sprayed repeatedly each day, and kept warm and humid, they grow really fast, but stay smooth.

This was typed up for sulcatas, but I'm doing the same exact thing with my new leopards.
http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies

Mine have gone from 34-55 in a month, but they are also the pardalis pardalis subspecies, which get bigger.

 

[Greg T]

I was worried about the slow weight gain in mine also when they were new, but after a short while it seems something changes. My younger guys were only gaining 10-15 grams a month at best last fall, but this spring something changed and they are exploding in weight now. I expect it to slow down now that temperatures are dropping again. Keep a log of your tort's growth and as long as it is increasing steadily you are doing fine. Like Tom was talking about - sometimes if you get too much growth too fast it can be bad for the tort. Slow and steady is best.

 

[Cherbear]

So you really think it is around two years old? That's kind of why I asked that question because it seemed to me like he had quite a few "growth rings" and the scutes looked slightly raised. I don't know why the person that I bought him from would lie to me because I was going to buy him regardless of his age. He did say he was the babcocki subspecies which you seem to agree, so that was right. So how big should a month or two hatchling's size be?

I have him on reptile carpet for right now because the day I brought him home I put him right on coco fiber and several hours later his eyes swelled up and went closed. That Monday I took him to the vet she said either he had vit. A deficiency or it could be the coco. She told me to keep him on reptile carpet and to put vit. A drops in the eye once a day for a week. His eyes are just fine now so one of those things worked but I suspect it was the coco. I think when I put him back on a substate I'll try cypress.

Thanks guys for the info and the link. That's a lot of nice information. I've had herman's for the past few years but they were full grown when I got them. Babies make me more nervous!

---

Btw, I have a hide but not a humid hide like you suggested. What else would you suggest to put in it besides coco?

 

[Seiryu]

I can definitely tell you that is not 2 years old haha!

Maybe Tom meant 2 months old.

I would say it's more around 3 months, maybe close to 4. Definitely at least 2 months old.

I've had two Leos that were around 4 months old when I got them and they were 40-50 grams.

If it's eating a lot, that's good. It may take some time for you to see noticeable gain for sure.

I wouldn't use reptile carpet though. I am very surprised his eyes swelled up with coconut coir unless you got unlucky and he is allergic somehow.

Is he in a tort table, glass tank or? If a tort table, it could be the wood that is causing issues as well.

 

[Tom]

Whoops. Very sorry. I meant two months old. Rob is right though, it very well could be 3-4 months old.

I've never heard of that sort of reaction to coco coir. Has anyone else? My initial thoughts are coincidence or maybe you somehow got a bad batch with some sort of chemical in it. What brand was it and where did you get it?

Anyhow you need something the can stay damp in there for humidity and you need it right away. Try orchid bark, sphagnum moss, plain soil with no additives or cypress mulch. I would try the coco coir again, but from a different brand or batch, to see if that really was the cause. Since it went away almost immediately, I would expect it to do that again if its some sort of coco coir allergy.

Whichever of these substrates work in your enclosure will also work in your humid hide box. I just keep it wetter in my hide box.

Remember that what I'm telling you is just what works for me, in my area. You may need to fine tune things a bit for your situation.

Good luck and please keep us posted. I'd love to see how the weight progresses. BTW, are you feeding any Mazuri? I use it twice a week or so and I'm getting great results from it. Might help in your situation. I just soak it and mix it in with some greens.

 

[Cherbear]

Oh, that's o.k. I was wondering if you meant two months, but since I hadn't had a very young one before, I didn't know.

I keep him in a 20 gallon long. I used eco earth from zoo med. I order it from the internet in large amounts when it's on sale. I have a bag of repti bark made by zoo med I could try. It's says it's 100% pure fir bark. I could go buy cypress if that would be better.

I have offered Zoo med grassland tortoise food to him but he has never touched it. I also water it down a bit to make mushy. Gee, I kind of feel like a Zoo Med commercial.

 

[Seiryu]

Oh, that's o.k. I was wondering if you meant two months, but since I hadn't had a very young one before, I didn't know.

I keep him in a 20 gallon long. I used eco earth from zoo med. I order it from the internet in large amounts when it's on sale. I have a bag of repti bark made by zoo med I could try. It's says it's 100% pure fir bark. I could go buy cypress if that would be better.

I have offered Zoo med grassland tortoise food to him but he has never touched it. I also water it down a bit to make mushy. Gee, I kind of feel like a Zoo Med commercial.

I've never used the zoo-med grassland tortoise food before. I assume it's somewhat like Mazuri? It isn't something you should feed every day regardless.

More like 1-2 times a week max. I don't know of too many people that do use the zoo-med pellets though, so maybe someone that does can chime in. I just have never had a need for it. And it's never been recommended to me, and I've never seen it recommended myself.

I would try Spring mix with other things mixed in like endive, escarole, turnip greens, collard greens, chopped grasses (see if he eats it, but probably won't) among other things. I personally have not used spring mix in months as I feel there are better things out there. Although mixed with other things, it is still good.

Oops edit: Also a 20g won't last for long. Maybe another month or so? Even then it is small. I would build a tort table at least 2x2 ft, preferably more. More room the better always.

They are going to need a huge enclosure once they start getting bigger, so it's something to think about.

 

[Tom]

Any of those substrates should work. I think most people prefer the cypress mulch out of those listed, but some of us (me) have a hard time getting it in our area.

I like the Zoo-Med food for occasional use, but mine won't eat it plain either. I soak a few pellets and then mush it all up with my usual greens, grass and weeds.

 

[Cherbear]

Thanks for all of the advice! Is there a good place to order Mazuri online that's not too expensive?

 

[Seiryu]

Thanks for all of the advice! Is there a good place to order Mazuri online that's not too expensive?

http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-MAZURI-Tortoise-Food-1-lb-2-lbs-6-lbs-10-lbs-sizes-available

Cory has great prices. Mazuri can last a very long time, if frozen or kept in a cool dry place, sealed. I've had mine for 6 months and it's still good. Some have had theirs for a year and it's still good.

I would probably buy the 1 or 2 LB bag. 2 LB is a better deal, but both will last a very long time.

 

[Cherbear]

Thanks! I hate to ask another question, but I also have hermans and a redfoot. Can they eat this as well? I've been feeding my redfoot the same zoo med stuff accept the kind made for forest tortoises.

 

[Seiryu]

Thanks! I hate to ask another question, but I also have hermans and a redfoot. Can they eat this as well? I've been feeding my redfoot the same zoo med stuff accept the kind made for forest tortoises.

Yep, they sure can eat it. I don't think I've seen any tortoises that can't. And most love it.

Just have to be careful to not feed it too often. Some torts on here have tried it and will ONLY eat Mazuri now. Both of mine still eat their greens though, it's very rare that they become that picky.

If you have other tortoises, you could always buy the bigger bags from him too. I figured the Leo was your only tortoise. In which case, 1-2 LBs would last a very long time. Won't last as long if you are giving to your hermans/redfoots.

 

[Cherbear]

Good, I'll order some when payday comes around again. It will be interesting to see how well they like it or not.

 

[Cherbear]

I was so happy this morning that I just had to update. My little leo is now 44g, up 2 grams since I've had him. I was beginning to wonder about him.

We've had some really nice 80 degree days here lately and I've be able to take him out more. I think maybe the "natural" sunshine and the tons of grazing has done him well. I live in Ohio and I'm afraid our nice days are numbered till spring.

 

[Seiryu]

I was so happy this morning that I just had to update. My little leo is now 44g, up 2 grams since I've had him. I was beginning to wonder about him.

We've had some really nice 80 degree days here lately and I've be able to take him out more. I think maybe the "natural" sunshine and the tons of grazing has done him well. I live in Ohio and I'm afraid our nice days are numbered till spring.

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm in Michigan and the weather has been nice the past couple of days, so they have been out.

Good to hear he gained 2 grams though!

Hopefully we get a few more days before winter hits!

 

[terracolson]

here is my chart of my leopards growth..



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Cherbear]

Thanks, that's helpful. It gives me an idea of what to expect.

 

[Tom]

Great chart Terra. Thanks for posting.

 

[Seiryu]

Here's mine for Sif and Thor.

Thor was roughly 15 months old at the start of this chart and Sif was about 4 months old at the start.

That would make Thor about 18 months old now, and Sif about 7 months old.

No lengths on this chart though, I need to start doing that again.