What species are my tortoise ?

[jpratt]

Hi
New to the forum,I have recently bought what I think are two Hermanns but I am unsure. Was wondering could I email a pro a couple of pics to confirm. I was given wrong info on how to keep them, and I am about to build a table rather than the viv so I just want to get everything right. ??

 

[JoesMum]

Hi and welcome to TFO

Please post photos of your tortoises in this thread and then tag HermanniChris and he will identify their subspecies for you. He needs clear photos of the shell, head and underside (including the tail) of each tortoise.

You have two tortoises. Do you know that they should not be kept together? They are not social and don't need or want a friend. Another tortoise is simply a rival for food and space and, regardless of gender, mental or physical bullying will occur. Groups of 3 or more may be successful in a very large outdoor enclosure, but pairs just don't work. See this

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...together-a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/

How big are these tortoises. Straight Carapace Length (SCL) is measured like this http://www.tlady.clara.net/measure.htm

I also advise you to read these and then ask us before spending money. We can help save expensive mistakes.
Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
Hermann's Tortoise Care
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/

 

[jpratt]

 

[JoesMum]

Can you post pictures of their undersides please? We need to see the plastron and tail too.

They're very cute.

Just so you know, the word you need is Species. Viruses have strains - tortoises have Species and Subspecies

 

[jpratt]

Lol ok
Thank you very much,I am about to upload now.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Hello, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
Please read http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
These look like Russian tortoises tortoises to me, though I have been wrong before.
Testudo horsfieldii
So http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

 

[jpratt]

Hi
The first one (darker) is 5.5 cm and the lighter one is 5 cm.
The lighter one seems to have a sore tale,not sure if this is due to bullying as they do seem happy together and eat/sleep together,but I suppose I can't watch them 24/7.
They are currently in a small viv which I feel is not good enough and I am about to put a 4ft x 2ft table together,is that ok?

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Russian hatchlings - very cute. Do you have them living together? This species is very prone to bullying, so in case you do have them in one habitat, you'll need to separate them.

 

[jpratt]

Hi thanks so much for the reply,so does that mean they are Western?

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Hi thanks so much for the reply,so does that mean they are Western?

Not sure I know what you mean here. They are not Western Hermann's tortoises. They are Testudo horsfieldii (not Testudo hermanni hermanni).

 

[jpratt]

So sorry,help me out here,so they are Russian Horsefield.

Kind regards
John

 

[JoesMum]

There are a number of species of Testudo tortoises

Testudo Hermanni - Hermann's tortoises - may be sub-divided into Western and Eastern. However, your tortoises are not this species.

You have Testudo Horsfieldii - Russian tortoises.

Their care is broadly similar to Hermann's, but they are much more active. They love to dig and climb and are great escape-artists.

They are also amongst the worst species for bullying and should not be kept as a pair as I explained on your other thread.

At that size a vivarium is great for them as it keeps the humidity in. They will need something bigger as they grow.

Please read this on the care of Baby Russian Tortoises written by one of our TFO species experts
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

 

[jpratt]

Thank you so much again,can I put my number in here or can I call you just for a quick chat.

 

[JoesMum]

It's never a good idea to post a phone number in a public forum (my day job involves internet safety training )

Just post your questions on the forum and there are many people who can help you. I don't have much experience with babies, so beyond the basics that I've learned from here you are better off with advice from some of the other long-serving members

 

[Tom]

So sorry,help me out here,so they are Russian Horsefield.

Kind regards
John

Hi John. You've gotten all good advice above. Sometimes it just helps to hear it unanimously, so I'm chiming in too.

-You have a couple of Testudo horsfieldii. Not hermanni.
-They should not be together as a pair.
-Vivs are better for babies than open tables in most cases.

Here is all the care info one more time:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[Gillian M]

Hi @jpratt and a very warm welcome to the forum.

Can't help you -sorry - am no tort expert. However, I can say one thing: you have adorable little torts. GOD bless.

 

[jpratt]

Hi Tom

Thanks for your reply,all input is greatly appreciated. I really regret not doing a bit more research before I bought them,and the pet shop owner obvs didn't have a clue as he had them both in a viv when I bought and told me nothing about them not getting along, but made out it was simple "just keep them two lights on and don t let temp go above this or below this"

I will tell you what I have and what I was planning to do and would you please tell me if it's right or wrong. I am reading so many articles and I am completely confused but trying my best to understand.

I now know that I can't keep them together,but before this I was unhappy about the little viv they are in so bought the timber to build a 4ft x 2ft table,10 inch high.

The viv is just shy of 2ft in length and is 1ft and a half deep and 1ft and a half high,both tortoises are only 5cm.

I have an 50 Watt UV-A Arcadia basking lamp in there with another basic coil type uv bulb (do i need this coil type bulb or are they getting enough uv from the uva basking lamp ??) and I have a moon lamp on in the night that is similar wattage to the bask lamp.

The temp in there at the min is 25C/80F and is similar through the night when the moon lamp is on,is this ok or does it need to be cooler through night??

The basking lamp is one end of the tank and I am not sure if the other end is an o.k cool spot until I drop another thermometer there ground level to check,although the sand,which I am about to change for soil is cooler to feel by the hand.

Once I re home one of them is the above sized viv suitable for one as long as I provide the right materials,moisture and everything else that you mentioned in the article or would you go ahead and build the table,or is it going to be hard to keep a baby in an open table if temperatures in my house are up and down because I have my central heating coming on and off here and there.

Sorry to lay it on thick mate I hope you can advise me again.

Best regards

John

 

[Tom]

Pet stores are notorious for bad info…

That size viv is good for little babies like yours. The table will be okay later, except the sides are too short. You need around 4" of substrate and even a little russian can climb out of 6" tall walls.

-Coil bulbs should not be used. They sometimes damage reptile eyes. Use a florescent tube to meet your tortoise's UV needs. Which type will depend on the mounting height.
-The Arcadia bulb: Is it a spot type bulb? Those shouldn't be used. They concentrate too much heat into too small of an area. You should be using flood bulbs. I use regular 65 watt flood bulbs from the hardware store. Set the bulb height so that you get a basking area under the bulb of around 95-100F. You may need a smaller or larger wattage bulb depending on your enclosure, or you can run it through a rheostat to tone it down. Further, the "UV A" thing is a sales gimmick meant to confuse people into paying too much for a bulb they don't need. UV A does not help your tortoise produce D3. You need a UV B bulb. See the first point again.
-This species usually doesn't need night heat unless your house is dropping below 60-65.
-If you do need night heat, I would recommend a CHE controlled by a thermostat. No moon glow bulbs. They need it dark at night.
-You said it is 80 in there. 80 where? There are four temps to know and adjust. Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low.
-I would not use sand or soil for substrate. Use coco coir or orchid bark.

All of this and much more is explained in detail in the two links I provided.

 

[jpratt]

Cheers Tom

Can I get an all in one uvb/bask flood tube or do they have to be separate ?

 

[jpratt]

What % uvb please Tom