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What's in that leaf, grocery and garden, published nutrient list.

Kapidolo Farms

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Romaine today, something else tomorrow. That's how this thread could work. I'll do my best to find nutrient content, please send me a PM here on TFO if there is a specific thing you want to see sooner rather than later.

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/35073?manu=&fgcd=&ds=

I have a hard time copy and pasting charts, they get jumbled, but here it is for romaine and the source. Romaine is not "BAD" at all. Go the the link to see the chart not so jumbled.

Source: USDA Branded Food Products Database Release October 2017 Software v.3.8.6.4 2017-10-02
Report Run at: November 01 2017 19:14 EDT
Nutrient data for: 45035522, OCEAN MIST FARMS, ROMAINE, UPC: 000651041001
Food Group: Branded Food Products Database
Common Name:
Nutrient Unit Data points Std. Error
(1.5 cup = 85.0g the first value) ( per 100 g for the second value) These value are for "as served" so do not remove water as a constituent.
Proximates
Energy kcal -- -- 15 (first value is 15 grams for 1.5 cups) 18 (second value is 18 grams per hundred grams)
Protein g -- -- 1 1.18
Total lipid (fat) g -- -- 0 0
Carbohydrate, by difference g -- -- 3 3.53
Fiber, total dietary g -- -- 2 2.4
Sugars, total g -- -- 1 1.18
Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg -- -- 20 24
Iron, Fe mg -- -- 0.72 0.85
Sodium, Na mg -- -- 5 6
Vitamins
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid mg -- -- 21 24.7
Vitamin A, IU IU -- -- 2500 2941
Lipids
Fatty acids, total saturated g -- -- 0 0
Fatty acids, total trans g -- -- 0 0
Cholesterol mg -- -- 0 0
Amino Acids
Other
Ingredients
ROMAINE. Date available: 07/14/2017 Date last updated by company: 07/14/2017


Sp from this we can see that romaine has 1.18 grams of protein per 100 grams of leaf. As it is near 90% water that means that the protein per dry gram is about 20%. But all that water is there, so it's not too much protein as the water to 'process' it in the gut is present.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Pumpkin today, seems like a controversial food item from Facebook post that sound like it causes instant death, to the idea it will cure your tortoise of worms. Neither of these claims would be true by-the-way.

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3141?fgcd=&manu=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=50&offset=&sort=default&order=asc&qlookup=pumpkin&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

PDF attached of the USDA profile, maybe that will work better?

One of the wolf cries about pumpkin is high sugar content, measured as total carbs and as sugars. Both are about twice romaine. At a rate of 5% pumpkin one feeding a week it is most likely your tortoise will NOT have a pre-diabetic blood glucose count. I have not done an actual blood glucose on tortoises fed pumpkin, I an extrapolating based on other high ration food items.

One of the articles in the "tortoise Library" pretty well dismisses the idea that pumpkin is an effective wormer.

On the plus side, pumpkin is indeed nutritious. The plant makes those things on purpose so animals will come eat them and poop out seeds all over the place. The pumpkin has collaborated with animals for a long time towards this end. Pumpkins are not that derived from selective culture. If anything they are more water and less nutrient packed than the wild base fruit that the pumpkin is.
 

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Kapidolo Farms

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Kapidolo Farms

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Endive is a few things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endive In my opinion the single best grocery store green to seek, another leaf form is called Frisee. I prefer what grocery stores label as Escarole. If you open the link for the wiki page, notice they too have a nutrient chart in a right sidebar.

Endive
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2966?manu=&fgcd=&ds=
Radicchio https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3562?manu=&fgcd=&ds=
Escarole https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/251463?manu=&fgcd=&ds=
Chicory https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2922?manu=&fgcd=&ds=
 

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Kapidolo Farms

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An ambiguous name for a few things...
Lemon Grass Elyonurus muticus https://www.feedipedia.org/node/445 ("Do not quote" warning at site)
Cymbopogon species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymbopogon and is also known as
Citronella https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3580?manu=&fgcd=&ds=

Citronella is a common name for the lemon grasses and I have fed this to tortoises. If they eat it, sparingly, it does not seem to be harmfull. It's not a 'soft' grass and has coarse hairs. Not favorite, but great fiber.
 

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Kapidolo Farms

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garland chrysanthemum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glebionis_coronaria who knew?

I bought this and fed it out just because I'm like that. Got it from H-mart in San Diego. I tried a little bit and don't recall anything remarkable about the flavor. I placed it in the diet at such a low % I also don't recall that any tortoises cared about it one way or the other.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030162260500388X?via=ihub Fed to sheep in this report.

as found in grocery stores.
 

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Kapidolo Farms

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Oyster Mushrooms Pleurotus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleurotus

Crazy horrible Calcium : Phosphorus ratio like 1:40 but Manouria impressa like it so much. No doubt in part why adults have such large fenestration*.

*a small natural hole or opening, especially in a bone. Usually when tortoises hatch all the bone is not filled in on their shells, it's sorta web like.

all those 'gaps' are fenestra.
 

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Kapidolo Farms

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I felt the nudge of neglect on this thread and my wonderful tortoise wife gave that extra little push.

Butter lettuce, green leaf lettuce, and red leaf lettuce.

All these have a push at about 3:2 C : P so not stellar but certainly not bad. As pointed out they are all not so good for fiber. And fiber is a really big deal, it allows the intestines to pack the food into little bolus like globs so the tortoises can move that bolus from the small intestines into the big intestines and then back into the small intestines.

Fiber is not some microscopic thing, it's large bits of stuff that is somewhat indigestible, like "Wow, that whole blade of grass came through." size things. For giant tortoises that is bigger things as fiber than a 25 gram neonate. So actual grasses fed with these lettuces make good use of both items.

Grasses are not the only 'more' fiber to include, opuntia, and tree/shrub leaves work too.
 

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Kapidolo Farms

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I felt the nudge of neglect on this thread and my wonderful tortoise wife gave that extra little push.

Butter lettuce, green leaf lettuce, and red leaf lettuce.

All these have a push at about 3:2 C : P so not stellar but certainly not bad. As pointed out they are all not so good for fiber. And fiber is a really big deal, it allows the intestines to pack the food into little bolus like globs so the tortoises can move that bolus from the small intestines into the big intestines and then back into the small intestines.

Fiber is not some microscopic thing, it's large bits of stuff that is somewhat indigestible, like "Wow, that whole blade of grass came through." size things. For giant tortoises that is bigger things as fiber than a 25 gram neonate. So actual grasses fed with these lettuces make good use of both items.

Grasses are not the only 'more' fiber to include, opuntia, and tree/shrub leaves work too.
 

RosemaryDW

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You know @Will, I have never really understood exactly why the calcium to phosphorus level is so important. I know that itis important! But I can’t explain it. Could you describe it in a way that someone like me—not a biologist—can understand? Using as few words as possible!? :)
 

Kapidolo Farms

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You know @Will, I have never really understood exactly why the calcium to phosphorus level is so important. I know that itis important! But I can’t explain it. Could you describe it in a way that someone like me—not a biologist—can understand? Using as few words as possible!? :)
http://www.anapsid.org/mbd2.html maybe exactly what you are NOT looking to read?

In short, for each atom or molecule of phosphorus the body needs a like unit of calcium. Metabolic processes will grab that calcium from anywhere it can, including skeletal (shell) calcium. It's much easier to add calcium to the diet to create this balance, than sort out foods low in phosphorus, which is also an essential nutrient. The recommendation for reptiles in general and tortoises in general is 2:1 C: P, some 'authorities' go as high as 30:1.
 

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http://www.anapsid.org/mbd2.html maybe exactly what you are NOT looking to read?

In short, for each atom or molecule of phosphorus the body needs a like unit of calcium. Metabolic processes will grab that calcium from anywhere it can, including skeletal (shell) calcium. It's much easier to add calcium to the diet to create this balance, than sort out foods low in phosphorus, which is also an essential nutrient. The recommendation for reptiles in general and tortoises in general is 2:1 C: P, some 'authorities' go as high as 30:1.
You explained this very well. Thank you!.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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USDA list only shows sprouts. ALFALFA and I think many folks use micro greens so that may be a good thing to look at

Sprouts https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2815?manu=&fgcd=&ds=

Then the list at feedipedia show many ways alfalfa can be fed

https://www.feedipedia.org/node/275 take note that as you scroll down through the nutrient data files (all one page) you go from dehydrated, to other treatments (fresh, hay, etc.)

Alfalfa is one of the few pellets and hays that can be found readily that is USDA certified organic. I am finder more respect for this. The benefits transcend what we feed out animals, it also reduces what is sprayed overall, and that effects the wild guys out there too.
 

Markw84

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USDA list only shows sprouts. ALFALFA
.

I actually like this resource. It is for Guinea pig husbandry, but the chart they make takes all food items and focuses on Protein, Ca, Phos, Magn, and then the Ca:p ratios. Really good info for us as Ca, Phos and Magnesium are the key elements for proper Calcium absorption, along with D3

Hay chart.jpg
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Zucchini as a stand alone item is well mixed in with other things based on how grocery stores and seed packet sellers have come to use the word. I have seen "yellow Zucchinni" to describe sorta straight crook neck squash, and now I see "mexican gray squash" for what looks like zucchini to me. These values are for what gets hits for zucchini in the databases listed.

USDA https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3180?manu=&fgcd=&ds= they call is summer squash which can mean a few things. One, that it readily grows and is available in summer months, but also it is one of the thin skinned squashes where ingesting the skin is common. Winter squashes tend to have thicker skin, often not consumed, and have a later growing season, so with both the thicker skin and later growing season can be stored better and are often consumed throughout the winter.

Good news is they tend to have more C : than : P or a positive C: P ratio

Feedipedia only lists "pumpkin" which is a term used in many languages to describe all squashes.
https://www.feedipedia.org/node/44 already shown in https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/whats-in-that-leaf-grocery-and-garden-published-nutrient-list.161833/#post-1541331 via the USDA link.

Crook neck squash https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3173?manu=&fgcd=&ds=

All summer squash varities as one item, I have no idea how they did the match to merge them all. https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3289?fgcd=&manu=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=50&offset=&sort=default&order=asc&qlookup=squash&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

Needless to say yet again, squash is good and can even be fed out frequently as the season change which one you add to the diet, AT A LOW RATE of inclusion. I use about 5% as that rate which will also mean not squash for vegetable inclusion a few times each week. Sometimes I will use carrots at about 1-2 %, or okra, or sweet potato at the 5% amount, or less of each for a total of 5%. These things are represented in wild diets in one form or another.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Dandelion greens

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2960?manu=&fgcd=&ds=

It is true that store dandelions and 'found in the backyard' are different, but 'technically' the same species. What's in your backyard has adapted to your specific environment (meaning climate, lawn watering patterns, and even to some extent your mowing frequency). Those that are cultivated have adapted to that care regime. I have not found any tortoises to seek them out in preference to other greens, but Testudo types are extremely attracted to the flowers.
 
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