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What's in that leaf, grocery and garden, published nutrient list.

Discussion in 'Tortoise Diet and Food' started by Kapidolo Farms, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    Bell pepper Capsicum annuum

    Wiki
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_pepper

    USDA
    Green
    https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...p=raw+bell+pepper&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

    Red and Green dehydrated
    https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...w+red+bell+pepper&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

    TTT
    http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=632&c=8#.WrPUIi7wZaQ
    "This plant comes from the same family as tomatoes, potatoes, tobacco and the nightshades, and although the pepper itself is not actually toxic to tortoises (and a small amount will not harm them), the leaves, stem and roots are toxic and should not be fed. "


    So I feed bell peppers when I can get alot for cheap, and them it gets blended in with other things. Poor C: P ration of 1: 4 so calcium might be an addition on a bell pepper meal for sure. Why feed it at all? The seeds are good for gut/food bolus motility, the bright red color is attractive to tortoises, and keeping variety going on is important. I'd rate it at maybe a few % of diet for one meal every other week or so. All the benefits can be acquired through other diet items less the variety aspect.
    Sesel likes this.
  2. Via Infinito

    Via Infinito Active Member

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    My reptilian vet recommended these 2
    Sauropus androgynus (also katuk) and my Sulcata is absolutely obsessed with it!
    Moringa oleifera (also drumstick tree)
  3. MichaelaW

    MichaelaW Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone heard of Entada Gigas, or Sea Heart?
  4. Salspi

    Salspi Active Member

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    68BC58CB-74A1-450F-B99C-1F690189A3F8.png
    Borage plant?
    Thank you
  5. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    Virginia Creeper Parthenocissus quinquefolia

    Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenocissus_quinquefolia

    TTT https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=342&c=4#.Wt-lbG4vxaQ

    USDA https://plants.usda.gov/plantguide/pdf/pg_paqu2.pdf

    There is no Feedipedia entry.

    This past weekend I watched a California Desert Tortoise eat creeper leaves with great gusto, over mulberry leaves at that! This plant has some weird history. Apparently it was consumed in moderation by native Americans. The TTT site suggests the issue is the berries being high in oxolates. There are wishy washy accounts of people (small children eating a great many berries) passing away from it. Just thought I'd put this here for any specific response someone might have.
  6. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    Moringa Moringa oleifera

    wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moringa

    Feedipedia https://www.feedipedia.org/node/12344

    no TTT entry.

    The WHO suggests this plant could be a global strategy to ending hunger for many people. http://www.fao.org/traditional-crops/moringa/en/

    It's a high quality plant as tortoise food. There are many threads in TFO regarding Moringa.


    katuk, star gooseberry, or sweet leaf Sauropus androgynus

    wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauropus_androgynus has some nutirent data on the left side column.

    TTT no entry

    Feedipedia no entry
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
  7. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    Salspi likes this.
  8. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    monkey-ladder, sea bean, cœur de la mer or sea heart Entada_gigas

    wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entada_gigas

    Feedipedia no entry

    TTT no entry

    No reason to draw any conclusion. I found no entry, not even for goats eating it. I might be slipping? :p
  9. MichaelaW

    MichaelaW Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't find much info on it either.
    Kapidolo Farms likes this.
  10. Salspi

    Salspi Active Member

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  11. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    If the C: P is like 1.1:1.2 no big deal, not good, but not horrible. If it's 1:15, then I would not use it, but TTT does not cite sources. I did not find the C: P ratio.
  12. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    Many of my garden hibiscus have become robust enough to endure a half dozen trimmed bits everyday. I place them around in enclosures and they are completely consumed by when I get home from work, along with the regular salad feed. The small mulberry trees I have are not in leaf yet, but I look forward to using them as well. This got me thinking about what other trees could work as daily small pruning, evergreen over deciduous for year round use, at least for the mild climate of southern California. I did some searches on google with wording like this, 'trees with edible leaves', 'tree leaves for fodder' and got hits like this...

    https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/19620602070 which lists Albizia lebbeck, Delonix regia, Gliricidia sepium, Leucaena leucocephala.

    Other searches bring up the well know Mulberry and Moringa, but also Terminalia catappa, Toona sinesnsis, and Crataegus monogyna. Most of these have been mentioned here on TFO at one time or another.

    So lets Wiki, and Feedipedia these trees...

    Albizia lebbeck: silk tree
    Feedipedia https://www.feedipedia.org/node/334
    Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albizia_lebbeck

    Delonix regia: flame tree
    feedipedia https://www.feedipedia.org/node/308
    Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delonix_regia

    Gliricidia sepium: quickstick
    Feedipedia https://www.feedipedia.org/node/552
    Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliricidia_sepium

    Leucaena leucocephala: White leadtree
    Feedipedia https://www.feedipedia.org/node/282
    Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucaena_leucocephala

    Terminalia catappa: Indian Almond
    Feedipedia only mentioned as an aside for rat feed trial sorting out the lectin toxicity. Figured essentially non-toxic.
    Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminalia_catappa

    Toona sinesnsis: Chinese mahagony
    Feedipedia no result
    Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toona_sinensis

    Crataegus monogyna: Hawthorne
    Feedipedia no result
    Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crataegus_monogyna

    All of these are listed as fodder for people, goats, cattle, chickens, some have had toxicity tests done with rats, all have some caution for not eating too much of it (what does not?). The first four are legumes and have a higher protein content than many other plants - it's important to understand that protein content as fed fresh aerial parts (often reported with water removed from the calculation) seem too high, but again I'll ask that you recall many plants that are feed like plantain, have a high protein content too. All of these, where the values are reported have a 2:1 to as high as 20:1 C: P ratio. In all, as part of a mix of diet items, if offered alongside other foods, these would all make a reasonable addition to backyard harvested food to feed tortoises.
  13. Gopherus Guy

    Gopherus Guy Member

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    I use Grape leaves, Yellow Squash, Romaine lettuce, Green Beans, Collard Greens, plus he’ll munch on an occasional backyard weed. I also use an occasional sprinkle of Calcium, Hibiscus Flower & leaves.
    I hope this diet is OK. He turns 53’ish this summer. He’s one happy guy!
    orv and RosemaryDW like this.
  14. Salspi

    Salspi Active Member

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    How is purslane? It grows wild in my garden
  15. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    purslane

    wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portulacaceae
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portulaca

    Tortoise Table https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=321&c=6#.WyAcVO4vxaQ

    No Feedipedia account

    USDA https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/302037?manu=&fgcd=&ds=&q=Purslane, raw

    I'd say not a worry, but not a primary food, which to me means less that a few % of weekly total food offered. If free range in an area with a wide vairety I'd hope they would not choose to eat it in abundance, but wouldn't worry so much about it either.
    Jay Bagley, Bambam1989 and Salspi like this.
  16. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...ookup=raw+romaine&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=
    ColaCarbonaria likes this.
  17. Bronbowie

    Bronbowie Member

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    Bought me some seeds to grow for fall. Will let you know if my leopard tortoise likes it.
  18. Kapidolo Farms

    Kapidolo Farms Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    There are many, dozens, of native rabbits so gardening is a challenge. The more things I grow the more rabbits come. I wish the local coyote would do more to help me out.

    I have many 1/2 plastic drum surrounded with chicken wire growing things, squirrels figure I do that so they can have first dibs over the rabbits.
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  19. KarenSoCal

    KarenSoCal Well-Known Member

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    I have the same problem with rabbits. After they chew on anything I've planted, they come to a waterer that's for the birds. They step in it and soak, then stretch out and lounge in the sun for a while. I swear they smirk at me and laugh, Chug's greens stuck in their teeth, all the while putting the middle toe of the front foot in the air!
  20. PA2019

    PA2019 Active Member

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    @Will

    I want to add another dried weed to my herbal mix and am debating between stellaria media, capsella bursa-pastoris, and malva spp. They all are priced within $3 of each other, and I want to choose the one with the widest range of beneficial nutrients.

    I am having trouble finding a published nutrient list for mallow leaves, and also chickweed.
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