Whos' to say it's big enough?

[Yellow Turtle01]

So I've been thinking.
There are enclosure size recommendations for every species... but who's to say it's big enough?
Russians-average 4x8, minimum... so on... but to a tort who's hardwired to wander, that's probably not very big at all! How could we ever provide enough space for a tort, so much space that it's be 'big enough'?
My conclusion has been that you simply cannot, because then walls we construct to keep a defined area are just... walls. And a tortoise shouldn't have walls, they don't have walls. They'll just keep wandering, because it's only in their natural happytat that the enclosure is big enough.
So where's the conclusion that (example!) 4x8 is a great size for an adult russiain? There's probably something scientific behind that, but you know
I understand going bigger is ALWAYS better, but simply can't go big enough, because at the end of the day, that tort can't wander as far as he wants.
Opinions?

 

[Maro2Bear]

I think 4' x 8' is a stated good size because that's the size of one normal size piece of uncut plywood. You are right, there is never an enclosure that is "large enough"!

 

[dmmj]

I am the arbiter of all things relating to size! I declare this thread to small.
Most enclosures indoor at least are to small, but we do what we can, to the best of our abilities.

 

[jaizei]

The only time an enclosure is too big is when you are unable to properly maintain it. Indoor, that usually means proper temperatures, humidity, etc.

I am the arbiter of all things relating to size! I declare this thread to small.
Most enclosures indoor at least are to small, but we do what we can, to the best of our abilities.

I'm pretty sure there's a joke in here somewhere, but I don't think it's forum appropriate.

 

[leigti]

I am not sure if tortoises have "territory" in their natural habitat, but I kind of assumed that they do. Most animals do. that area is probably pretty large and I agree that say hello for most people being able to build a large enough habitat is not possible. indoor habitats will never be big enough, and you would need a lot of land to make an outdoor one big enough. I do think the 4 x 8' recommendation is because of the plywood size. we can just do the best we can, keep trying to improve the enclosure that they do have. I think it is still better to be a little on the small side but have the conditions correct rather than a huge enclosure without the proper hides, humidity, plants etc.

 

[phebe121]

Yes i agree there never going to be big enough but they are well takein care of have a meal or to and some.snacks everyday with people to love them and they live to be old and happy .wild ones dont get a meal every day dont know about chin and head rubs and love

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

I am the arbiter of all things relating to size! I declare this thread to small.
Most enclosures indoor at least are to small, but we do what we can, to the best of our abilities.

Agree with jaizie...
I also understand that everyone does the very bestest to their abilities for their torts!

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

The only time an enclosure is too big is when you are unable to properly maintain it. Indoor, that usually means proper temperatures, humidity, etc.



I'm pretty sure there's a joke in here somewhere, but I don't think it's forum appropriate.

I get the can't maintain the biggest possible enclosure (indoors ) but then it's just, Why do we downgrade our torts to a smaller size, when we can?

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Yes i agree there never going to be big enough but they are well takein care of have a meal or to and some.snacks everyday with people to love them and they live to be old and happy .wild ones dont get a meal every day dont know about chin and head rubs and love

I'm all for proper care, and chin rubs sound nice!

 

[jaizei]

Agree with jaizie...

Didn't they ever teach you i before e except after z.

 

[phebe121]

I'm all for proper care, and chin rubs sound nice!

Lol so are my torts and the boyfriend lol

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Didn't they ever teach you i before e except after z.

Oh no! I'm sorry! I always think of your name with two i's on either side of z!
EDIT- and yes, but I'm sure it's after c!

 

[peasinapod]

I also agree with "the bigger the better"! Though it also depends on what you have inside the enclosure. A hermann's probably would prefer a smaller, well planted enclosure to a big expanse of just lawn.

The advice on size depends heavily on country as well.
If you go on german forums they'll always recommend 10 m^2 (107 square feet) for a mediterranean tortoise, more if you plan on having more than one tortoise.
Maybe it is because around here tortoises aren't that common as pets.

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

I also agree with "the bigger the better"! Though it also depends on what you have inside the enclosure. A hermann's probably would prefer a smaller, well planted enclosure to a big expanse of just lawn.

The advice on size depends heavily on country as well.
If you go on german forums they'll always recommend 10 m^2 (107 square feet) for a mediterranean tortoise, more if you plan on having more than one tortoise.
Maybe it is because around here tortoises aren't that common as pets.

Every species definitely has what they would like better, and individuals too
I think a lot of tortoise keeping began in Europe, because it's there about where a few a smaller tortoise naturally live.

 

[peasinapod]

Every species definitely has what they would like better, and individuals too
I think a lot of tortoise keeping began in Europe, because it's there about where a few a smaller tortoise naturally live.

I don't know what they recommend size-wise in Italy and France. I really should have a look at their forums. The french are really anti-fridge for hibernation methods. It is quite interesting to see how each forum is.completely different.
German forums can be quite vicious sometimes, they'll intimidate you right into bulldozing down your house to make enough space for the tortoises. :O

(Just kidding! Though it is a tiny bit true)

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

I don't know what they recommend size-wise in Italy and France. I really should have a look at their forums. The french are really anti-fridge for hibernation methods. It is quite interesting to see how each forum is.completely different.
German forums can be quite vicious sometimes, they'll intimidate you right into bulldozing down your house to make enough space for the tortoises. :O

(Just kidding! Though it is a tiny bit true)

Hey, that can be a great thing!
Everybody has their own ideas about what's okay and correct, it's sort of fun to see how they differ place to place

 

[Prairie Mom]

I don't know what they recommend size-wise in Italy and France. I really should have a look at their forums. The french are really anti-fridge for hibernation methods. It is quite interesting to see how each forum is.completely different.
German forums can be quite vicious sometimes, they'll intimidate you right into bulldozing down your house to make enough space for the tortoises. :O

(Just kidding! Though it is a tiny bit true)

On the whole, I think Germany and a lot of Europe take care of their animals a lot more considerately than we do here in the US. I think it's kind of cool to hear that they are insisting on larger enclosure sizes (not the bullying part though!) It amazes me to walk down the street and see waterbowls outside of shops for dogs etc. They are just waaay more animal friendly. I'm shocked and kind of proud of some of Italy's pro-animal pet legislation recently.

 

[kmartin]

With other animals the space they require in the wild is directly related to the area they need to feed themselves. And territories would be defined by how many tortoise that could feed and breed without depleting the resources. We provide a balanced diet for our torts, so, realistically the area they need is reduced. However I still provide as much space as I can to allow them as much freedom as they can safely have.

 

[Prairie Mom]

Thoughtful thread, Delaney. I kind of needed to read this, because my downstairs living room has just been taken over by the animals. We removed a couch to put in a closed chamber for our sulcata when it's cold and upgraded a fishtank size. I've been feeling a bit like we're the ones living behind glass and our sulcata enclosure is STILL not big enough! I kind of needed to read the comments about doing the best we can for our animals Thanks!

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

On the whole, I think Germany and a lot of Europe take care of their animals a lot more considerately than we do here in the US. I think it's kind of cool to hear that they are insisting on larger enclosure sizes (not the bullying part though!) It amazes me to walk down the street and see waterbowls outside of shops for dogs etc. They are just waaay more animal friendly. I'm shocked and kind of proud of some of Italy's pro-animal pet legislation recently.

I do agree many other European countries take better care of their animals than we do, and that's a sad thing, because animal care should go 100% everywhere