Why are my sulcata tortoises growing so slow???

[DTNGUYEN0707]

I have 4 sulcata tortoises. Each of them seem to be growing at a much slower rate than I have read of other sulcata tortoises. I purchased my oldest one during September of 2021, and as of today, it only weighs 1.118 lbs. It is also about the size of my hand, or a little bit bigger than a baseball. Month by month, I either measure no increase in weight or circumference, or a slight increase by 0.1 lbs or cm. This is the same for my 2 year old, 6 month old, and 4 month old. I have done a lot of research regarding generally caring for a sulcata tortoise, and to the best of my ability, have been following these guidelines.

My general routine would be taking them outside in the mornings to my front yard where they have access to grass all day. Near the evening, I would take them back inside to a closed chamber enclosure. My humidity levels are around 60-80, and my temperatures read around 88 degrees F. The diet I provide for them is grass, weeds, romaine lettuce, pricky pear cactus, mustard greens, and hibiscus leaves. Assuming that they consumed a good amount of grass for the day, I would feed them about a handful of food at night. I soak my sulcata tortoises about once every 2-3 days. I do not choose to have a UV bulb in my sulcata enclosure because I have them outside for the entire day already.

Can I please get some advice or critiques as to what I might be doing wrong? Are they not eating enough grass or weeds? I know for a fact that a 3 year old tortoise should not be weighing only 1 lb.

*I admit starting my oldest 1 lb tortoise with poor conditions. I had very dry humidity and only fed them romaine lettuce. As a result, it pyramided. Upon learning more about how to care for tortoises, I tried to improve my routine with my other three, and have managed to fix the pyramiding problem, but have not figured out why they do not grow as fast as they should be.

 

[DTNGUYEN0707]

I just read that the problem might be because I am keeping them outside for too long. If this is the case, have I already stunted their growth spur? Can I bring their growth rate back to normal?

 

[Tom]

I have 4 sulcata tortoises. Each of them seem to be growing at a much slower rate than I have read of other sulcata tortoises. I purchased my oldest one during September of 2021, and as of today, it only weighs 1.118 lbs. It is also about the size of my hand, or a little bit bigger than a baseball. Month by month, I either measure no increase in weight or circumference, or a slight increase by 0.1 lbs or cm. I have done a lot of research regarding generally caring for a sulcata tortoise, and to the best of my ability, have been following these guidelines.

My general routine would be taking them outside in the mornings to my front yard where they have access to grass all day. Near the evening, I would take them back inside to a closed chamber enclosure. My humidity levels are around 60-80, and my temperatures read around 88 degrees F. The diet I provide for them is grass, weeds, romaine lettuce, pricky pear cactus, mustard greens, and hibiscus leaves. Assuming that they consumed a good amount of grass for the day, I would feed them about a handful of food at night. I soak my sulcata tortoises about once every 2-3 days. I do not choose to have a UV bulb in my sulcata enclosure because I have them outside for the entire day already.

Can I please get some advice or critics as to what I might be doing wrong? Are they not eating enough grass or weeds? I know for a fact that a 3 year old tortoise should not be weighing only 1 lb.

They need to live indoors in a large closed humid chamber most of the time until they reach at least 8-10 inches. Only then should they be outside all day.

Humidity needs to be over 80% all day and night for a growing baby. 60% is too low.

88 is fine as an ambient temperature, but they still need a basking area that is around 100 directly under the bulb.

What is the over night low temp?

Depending on the weeds, I don't see any protein in their diet. How about some clover, alfalfa, legumes, plantain weed, Mazuri, etc...

Babies should be soaked every day.

All of the above will slow their growth. I've done side by side growth experiments with clutch mate hatchings. A randomly selected half dozen were housed outside all day like yours. Another randomly selected half dozen stayed mostly indoors. Both groups were soaked daily and slept in the same large closed chamber with a divider in the middle, and fed the same amount of the same food from the same bucket. The only variable was the amount of time spent outside. After six months, the indoor group was much smoother and literally three times the size of the outdoor group.

Now let me guess... You did your research on YT? Kamp Kenan maybe? Now you know why we say that is not good advice. Here is the current and correct care advice:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

More here:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Please feel free to question any of this. I'm happy to explain further and back up any of these assertions.

 

[DTNGUYEN0707]

Yes, unfortunately Kamp Kenan was one of the first people I followed on YT. My over night low temp is around the low 70s.

Thank you so much for your help. I will make changes accordingly. Given that I do improve their conditions, is it too late to see fast growth from now on? Or did I stunt their growth spur?

 

[Tom]

Yes, unfortunately Kamp Kenan was one of the first people I followed on YT. My over night low temp is around the low 70s.

Thank you so much for your help. I will make changes accordingly. Given that I do improve their conditions, is it too late to see fast growth from now on? Or did I stunt their growth spur?

The night time low for sulcatas should not drop below 80. 70s is too low, this is another factor that will greatly slow their growth.

I know you are bummed, but at least you know what is happening. You found and followed the wrong care advice. I'm sorry about that. It happens to a lot of people.

There is no way to predict what damage has been done, but most of the time, they will grow normally once conditions are corrected. The way you've been housing and caring for them certainly isn't optimal, as you can see from the results, but it is also not catastrophically bad either. They've been eating a good diet. They aren't well hydrated, but they aren't terribly dehydrated either. All that UV every day will have prevented MBD from ever happening. Start keeping them indoors in a large warm humid closed chamber and start soaking daily, and I would expect "normal" growth to resume. Only time will tell for sure.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello! Just thought I’d add this thread if you’d like some visual examples on a closed chamber set up for them that will hopefully maintain the 80+ humidity you’re needing, I include some at the bottom🙂

Leopard/sulcata starter

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for this guy until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give you some ideas! I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[dd33]

Are these tortoises being housed together?

If I were in your shoes I would find an experienced reptile vet in your area and screen the tortoises for Cryptosporidium. One of the most obvious symptoms is extremely slow, or complete lack of growth.

I just learned about this great resource for finding reptile vets: https://members.arav.org/search/custom.asp?id=3661 I am sure there are some duds in the search results but it may serve to narrow down the list of choices when you need help.

 

[DTNGUYEN0707]

Are these tortoises being housed together?

If I were in your shoes I would find an experienced reptile vet in your area and screen the tortoises for Cryptosporidium. One of the most obvious symptoms is extremely slow, or complete lack of growth.

I just learned about this great resource for finding reptile vets: https://members.arav.org/search/custom.asp?id=3661 I am sure there are some duds in the search results but it may serve to narrow down the list of choices when you need help.

Yes, I house all 4 tortoises together in one big closed chamber enclosure. And thanks for the tip, I’ll look into it.

 

[DTNGUYEN0707]

I really want to use orchid bark as my substrate, but I can’t seem to find any bulk products at any gardening store. Do you guys know of any places where they might sell them as a bulk product?

For reference, I bought three 40 pound bags of all-natural topsoil and that filled up the enclosure. I didn’t want to blow $100 on replacing the substrate with Petsmart Orchid Bark.

 

[wellington]

I really want to use orchid bark as my substrate, but I can’t seem to find any bulk products at any gardening store. Do you guys know of any places where they might sell them as a bulk product?

For reference, I bought three 40 pound bags of all-natural topsoil and that filled up the enclosure. I didn’t want to blow $100 on replacing the substrate with Petsmart Orchid Bark.

Sadly tip soil should not be used and you would be better off separating them into their own enclosure. When they get big enough to sex, then you could house two or 3 females with one male outside if you have a very big outdoor space for them. Never house in pairs and never two males to a group

 

[Sarah2020]

Yes, unfortunately Kamp Kenan was one of the first people I followed on YT. My over night low temp is around the low 70s.

Thank you so much for your help. I will make changes accordingly. Given that I do improve their conditions, is it too late to see fast growth from now on? Or did I stunt their growth spur?

Your aiming for slow steady growth. Provide correct conditions, hydration, diet and space to ensure smooth shell growth.

 

[Megatron's Mom]

I really want to use orchid bark as my substrate, but I can’t seem to find any bulk products at any gardening store. Do you guys know of any places where they might sell them as a bulk product?

For reference, I bought three 40 pound bags of all-natural topsoil and that filled up the enclosure. I didn’t want to blow $100 on replacing the substrate with Petsmart Orchid Bark.

I had similar experience with finding orchid bark. Even trying to find it online made it crazy expensive. I went to HD and bought cypress mulch. It has worked perfectly and it's only 4 bucks a bag. I think I used 2 maybe 3 for my 4x8 enclosure.

 

[Maro2Bear]

I had similar experience with finding orchid bark. Even trying to find it online made it crazy expensive. I went to HD and bought cypress mulch. It has worked perfectly and it's only 4 bucks a bag. I think I used 2 maybe 3 for my 4x8 enclosure.

Yes, i too have used Cypress Mulch from Lowes for many years now. It’s cheap & available. I used to take a 5 gallon bucket, and fill it half with mulch and top with water & let it soak up the water. A long slow soak of mulch really helped it hydrate.

 

[Sarah2020]

Hi I am not in USA but just checked back on old posts...
Please check this out as an option....
You can get 24 quart bags of repti-bark on Chewy.com.

 

[DTNGUYEN0707]

What is the ideal feeding conditions for my baby sulcata tortoises? Would feeding once a day at night be fine? Or should I feed small amounts throughout the day?

 

[ryan57]

What is the ideal feeding conditions for my baby sulcata tortoises? Would feeding once a day at night be fine? Or should I feed small amounts throughout the day?

I am not an expert and only have two but mine eat a little over the size of their shell daily in grass/weeds/greens, etc. They are fed greens/dry crushed mazuri coating the greens in the morning, graze outside daily, then daily soak for about 1hr-1.5hrs in he evening (which they love) and then greens before settling in.

One has a more size appropriate 7" x 4.5" x 3.5" carapace and is almost 2.5 lbs @ 1 yr. 1mo.

Don't even want to mention the other. He's like state pumpkin size: almost 19" long, 13.5" wide and almost 10" tall @ 2yrs and almost 6 months. 45lbs currently and he'll definitely be 50-60lbs @ 3yrs.

Growth is wildly different. Identical care and diet for these two. Tom is right on the money as far as care goes and don't sweat the size. I wouldn't think that they are stunted at that age, just looking for ideal conditions. Keep them WARM. Mine are mid 80's to low 90'sF at night, every night and both sleep at least 15 hours in the high 80's. The big, really lazy, growing one sleeps more. I think a lot of their growth occurs as they are resting nice and warm. Today he was taken out of his indoor burrow spot at 10:30am. pooped at 11:00, slept in the office until 4:00 p.m. Pooped again and then walked to the door and went out. He went to his spot in the yard and dug a little and rested under a bush. Got tired of waiting for him to come in @ 7pm and placed him in the yard closer to the door. He did not eat, walked in and then soaked for 2 45min sessions. He came downstairs clean and ate an 18" pizza pan 10" high full of grass, weeds, hibiscus, mulberry, escarole, endive, radicchio, bok choi, with dried moringa and calcium.

Yesterday he walked twice to a corn field over 1/4 mile away to find poop, etc. So between the grazing and walking he probably walked 1 mile. I ride on the ATV and give him a ride home in the cart.

I honestly WISH I could be as excited about something as he was to find this field. When I took him back to our yard yesterday he literally RAN back to it. Thought for sure he'd try to head there today.