Why does my Desert Tortoise bob his head?

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GeoTerraTestudo

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ascott said:
Tortoises do not engage in mirror behavior

Usually :D You will encounter a "freak" personality from time to time....

Tortoises don't play or bond

Call it what we simple humans will, but from time to time we will find a rebel that simply does what feels good and has not read the "wild tortoise rule book"....

they're very interesting animals!

Absolutely....:p

We have a couple members on this very Forum that have a couple of these unique souls....so, get to know your tort and figure what works well for your torta as well as you.....if your tort has been spoiled "human" like..then it may certainly have normal tortoise behavior but has learned when to utilize its skills....lol..:D

Angela, here's an interesting video I found. It's a clip of several children gathered around a CDT at a picnic in the park (probably for educational purposes). One of the little boys shakes his head at the tortoise, and the tortoise bobs his head right back at the boy. They repeat this several times.

Obviously, this is true head-bobbing, as it is more elaborate and less rhythmic than breathing (of course, the pattern varies from one species to another). However, I would not say that this tortoise is playing with or befriending the boy. If anything, he probably perceives the boy as trying to intimidate him, but considers himself strong enough to counter with head-bobbing of his own. He seems to back away at the end, though, perhaps because he does not want to challenge the much bigger "tortoise" confronting him. :)

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4EVdkpLXEw[/video]
 

Krisowen

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That was great video of the tortoises fighting! It was not what I am seeing at all. I could recognize that as aggression easily. That is not the behavior I am referring to as head bobbing either, not even close. I will have to record it and figure out how to upload it. I am talking big up and down movements with the head, exaggerated movements even. Like she is keeping beat to music, way up and way down. I would not of recognized the tortoises on the video as even bobbing their head at all. Her head is more out of her shell than that but not straight necked, more relaxed and she is relaxed as she is doing it. Like she is excited to meet our toes and it is her way of communicating and saying hi. Like she thinks our big toe is another tortoise head or something, it is weird. Yes, maybe she has different behaviors growing up spoiled. She does not like to be alone, that is for sure. The ramming is not what I am seeing either. It is like she is just trying to push out feet to move us. It is one constant effort, not back and forth rams. She just keeps pushing with her back legs. Sometimes her feet slide on our tile as she is doing it. No you really have me wondering what this is.

P.s. I just saw the second video! That is exactly what she is doing! Just sitting there next to our feet bobbing her head when we move our toes up and down. Never any aggression. She just stays there bobbing her head.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Krisowen said:
That was great video of the tortoises fighting! It was not what I am seeing at all. I could recognize that as aggression easily. That is not the behavior I am referring to as head bobbing either, not even close. I will have to record it and figure out how to upload it. I am talking big up and down movements with the head, exaggerated movements even. Like she is keeping beat to music, way up and way down. I would not of recognized the tortoises on the video as even bobbing their head at all. Her head is more out of her shell than that but not straight necked, more relaxed and she is relaxed as she is doing it. Like she is excited to meet our toes and it is her way of communicating and saying hi. Like she thinks our big toe is another tortoise head or something, it is weird. Yes, maybe she has different behaviors growing up spoiled. She does not like to be alone, that is for sure. The ramming is not what I am seeing either. It is like she is just trying to push out feet to move us. It is one constant effort, not back and forth rams. She just keeps pushing with her back legs. Sometimes her feet slide on our tile as she is doing it. No you really have me wondering what this is.

P.s. I just saw the second video! That is exactly what she is doing! Just sitting there next to our feet bobbing her head when we move our toes up and down. Never any aggression. She just stays there bobbing her head.

Okay, glad I posted the videos then. Well, if she is doing true head-bobbing, like the tortoise in the second video, then that is an aggressive display. It's not a greeting. It's her way of saying, "Go away." If she's pushing you, even slightly, then that is an even higher level of aggression. Not as high as biting or ramming, but threat behavior nonetheless. Sorry. :(
 

Levi the Leopard

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WONDERFUL EXAMPLES GeoTT!

Thank you for sharing.

These visual comparisons really help for those of us following along trying to grasp some of these described behaviors.

Thanks again :D If no one else, I have benefited from these clips.
 

Krisowen

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OK, well now I know. I will have to watch her. I expected aggression to look like the first video and I knew I wasn't seeing that display. The head bobbing alone confused me. It seemed out of context to be aggression. I will watch her.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Team Gomberg said:
WONDERFUL EXAMPLES GeoTT!

Thank you for sharing.

These visual comparisons really help for those of us following along trying to grasp some of these described behaviors.

Thanks again :D If no one else, I have benefited from these clips.

Yea! :D


Krisowen said:
OK, well now I know. I will have to watch her. I expected aggression to look like the first video and I knew I wasn't seeing that display. The head bobbing alone confused me. It seemed out of context to be aggression. I will watch her.

Head-bobbing alone is like a dog just baring his teeth or growling without actually attacking, or a human just glaring at you without throwing a punch. It's a warning. One tortoise can intimidate another with this simple threat (this is how tortoises can bully and stress other tortoises when housed improperly). The other tortoise seeing that signal would know that it is not welcome, and would either try to flee or challenge. If the warning is not heeded, then escalating aggression could follow. I'm glad you're not seeing that.

I wonder if you might be doing something to make her feel like she has to threaten you. Does she feel cornered? Is she handled roughly or too frequently? Maybe she gets too many baths, or maybe you present her with food too quickly. Maybe she would calm down if she mated, or maybe it's just her personality. Why do you think she's trying to make you leave her alone?
 

Krisowen

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No, I don't think it is anything I am doing. I don't feed her by hand. She eats outside, it is around 90 degrees here during the day. I live in sunny Arizona. If I feed her extra other than the outside grass then I just put edible flowers in front of her while she is munching on grass, maybe a piece of fruit on rare occasion. If she sees me put flowers on the ground she comes running as fast as her little legs can carry her. She is used to living on grass and flowers outside with the occasional fruit. That is what the lady before me did. I have planted lots of flowers for her to eat but roses and hibiscus flowers are her favorite. I do not bath her but I have a shallow pan of water she goes in outside to drink from. Our relationship is not based on me touching her. She just is in my presence as company. I do lift her up so she can sit on the couch and sleep next to me and I do pull the extra grass out of her teeth but she let's me. I lay on the grass with her sometimes, that's about it. I do kiss her on the nose and talk with her when I pick her up to put her on the couch. It honestly seems like courting behavior because we are sitting outside, not interacting with her at all when she comes up and does it. We are not touching her at all. She is just walking around playing and investigating when she strolls up and it happens. She just notices our toes. Bobs her head a few times and goes on to investigate around more. Sometimes she will sit with us and do it if she is all tired out from investigating around beforehand. She just really likes our big toes. I think she has a toe fetish. I will watch for aggression though to be safe.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Krisowen said:
No, I don't think it is anything I am doing. I don't feed her by hand. She eats outside. If I feed her extra other than the outside grass then I just put edible flowers in front of her while she is munching on grass, maybe a piece of fruit on rare occasion. She is used to living on grass and flowers outside with the occasional fruit. That is what the lady before me did. I do not bath her but I have a shallow pan of water she goes in outside. Our relationship is not based on me touching her. She just is in my presence as company. It honestly seems like courting behavior because we are sitting outside, not interacting with her at all when she comes up and does it. We are not touching her at all. She is just walking around playing and investigating when she strolls up and it happens. She just notices our toes. Bobs her head a few times and goes on to investigate around more. Sometimes she will sit with us and do it if she is all tired out from investigating around beforehand. She just really likes our big toes. I think she has a toe fetish. LOL I will watch for aggression though to be safe.

LOL ... You sure it's a female? Males are the ones that use head-bobbing for courtship, and mature male tortoises that do not have mates have been known to court shoes, feet, etc. Almost sounds like it's a male trying to find a sexual outlet, rather than a female. Got any photos, particularly of the vent so we can sex it?
 

Krisowen

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Also, she does follow me everywhere. I even take her out the garage door to sit out front. She plays and investigates while we sit. I watch her closely. She will listen to 'no, turn around' about half the time. The other half I have to start to get up and then she turns around like 'I was just going to do that.' LOL she is not allowed under our cars. That is a boundary, she is learning. We take walks down the sidewalk to the neighbors to eat their flowers and weeds. She follows right behind me there and back and will greet each person with a head bob at their feet before moving on to investigate. I may be wrong but I think I have an unusual relationship with her from what it sounds like. I consider myself blessed. She is great company.


I will take some pictures tomorrow. She has put herself to bed in my closet under my hanging clothes for the night. That is what the little old lady told me who I rescued her from. She was going into assisted living and could not take her. I never thought twice about it. Maybe it is a male. That would fit better. She had the tortoise since it was a little, for about 13 years. Her son found it in the desert outside of Tucson. Maybe she was wrong.
 

Krisowen

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I found this picture of the protrusion under her head. A picture of her eating. I will post more tomorrow.
 

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GeoTerraTestudo

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Krisowen said:
I found this picture of the protrusion under her head. A picture of her eating. I will post more tomorrow. Is she fat? She sure seems to be busting out of her shell all poofy. :)

Wow, what a handsome creature. No, looks good. A little bit of chub is good.

Male CDTs have that gular spur, as well as mental (lower jaw) glands, a concave plastron, and a bigger tail. Sometimes people think young males are females because it takes 15-20 years until they reach 8 inches in length, go through puberty, and develop male characteristics.

I'm looking forward to seeing more pix, but based on that relatively large (and probably growing) gular spur, I think you might have a horny adolescent male on your hands. That would explain why he's trying to court and hump everything in sight, including your feet and the neighbors'! :D

Here's a good website on telling the sexes apart in CDTs:
http://blogs.sandiegozoo.org/2009/07/29/desert-tortoises-male-or-female/
 

Krisowen

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Oh how funny! I estimate he/she is 15 to 20 years old from what she told me. It was small enough to fit through a small cat door when she found it. I keep thinking and referring to it as a male. I have all along. I bet she was wrong. He is a chub! He is busting out of his shell. How fast does his shell grow? He eats a lot. It is not uncommon for him to be a hour in the afternoons munching on grass.


Here are 2 more pictures from last fall after I first got her/him..
 

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GeoTerraTestudo

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All that sounds normal. He's looking good. A tortoise isn't really fat unless he has trouble withdrawing into his shell. A little bit of fat is good, particularly in temperate (non-tropical) tortoises, because it helps them get through the winter. Tortoises are herbivores like cattle and rabbits, so they are adapted to eating a lot of low-nutrient food, as opposed to carnivores and omnivores (like us), which eat relatively smaller amounts of high-nutrient food. For a reptile, tortoises eat a lot.

Looks like your guy is doing well. When you get a chance, if you can post a picture of his/her tail, underside, and chin, that will provide us with more information as to sex.
 

Krisowen

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Will any of these work? I have seen a little tail but it is tucked in right now. I can feel a very slight indentation on the bottom shell but it is hard to see in the pictures. Maybe he is younger than I thought, 12 to 15 years and still developing


Here are some more pic's and yes, I have dogs but they are very used to small animals around and well trained. I have a bird that walks on my floor and ferrets running around them. I am always rescuing something so they are used to it and ignore them. In fact I have them trained to find him in the yard for me when we all go outside to look for him, it is cute.
 

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GeoTerraTestudo

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Sweet pix, and like I said, beautiful tort. :)

I'm glad your dogs are well-behaved and can help you find your tortoise. That is excellent, but as we've said here on TFO, even the most trustworthy dog should still be supervised when around a tortoise or other small pets, just to be sure.

Well, that vent does look like a female's vent: short, stubby tail with a star-shaped opening closer to the base. Plastron does not appear to be particularly concave, and I don't see any prominent mental glands, either. It could be a young male who's still developing, but I think it's just a female with a relatively long gular spur.

Like I said, head-bobbing can mean courtship in males, or just plain old aggression in either sex. CDTs have been known to display to humans in their territories in the wild. It's usually males, although females have been known to defend nests to some degree. If this one is neither male nor a nesting female, then maybe she is just getting old enough to try and establish a territory of her own more vigorously.
 

Krisowen

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Interesting, I guess I will just have to give things more time and watch what develops. I will watch for the aggression. Thanks for letting me know she is OK. I often wondered if she was eating enough etc.
 
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