Why is Mazuri so popular, I don't get it.

[Florida]

Why is mazuri so popular? Tbh, I don't get it. The way to read an ingredients list is, the ingredient mentioned first, is what the product contains most of. Then the seccond etc etc.


I have a horse and horses and herbivore tortoises are very similar when it comes to feeding. You see the same type of stuff in horsefeed, super popular but ingredients wise very mediocre.
My horse has a serious chronic illness and feeding certain ingredients like corn, molasses, soy/hulls etc make it worse. So a long time ago (horse is 24 now) I had to do some serious research in horsefood and ingredients.


To me the ingredients are not great. Mazuri LS is a bit better because it at least contains timothy hay as the biggest ingredient, but still, mediocre in my opnion. Mazuri TD's biggest ingredient is soybean hulls, so the shell of a soybean? then corn, soymeal, wheat midds, molasses (=sugar/syrup) etc.
To me that is not great.


Sure it contains fiber, quite low protein. Cat and dog hair also contains lots of fiber? or chicken feathers. I think they both contain very low quality ingredients, 1 more than the other.


My horse, the previous tort (past away in his 90's), and my current tort, all eat the same stuff: Pre Alpin. The company is German (I'm Dutch, so their neighbor?) and they make natural horse, rodents, tortoise and other livestock foods.
The horse/tortoise one is exactly the same:meadow grasses, herbs, flowers, weeds from the Alps. Zoomed tortoise grasslands comes the closest to Pre Alpin I think. Yes the majority of my horses diet is hay/grass/weeds and the torts weeds/leafy greens etc, but the Pre Alpin is a nice completion of the diet.


You see this in alot of tortoise foods. I looked at Komodo cucumber for instance: zero cucumber and all soy/corn/wheat. Interesting?


Mazuri tortoise diet:
Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, wheat middlings, cane molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, dl-methionine, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (form of vitamin E), biotin, cholecalciferol, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, folic acid, riboflavin, preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, nicotinic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, citric acid, l-lysine, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate.


Mazuri LS:
Ground Timothy Hay, Ground Soybean Hulls, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Oat Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Cane Molasses, Dried Apple Pomace, Ground Flaxseed, Carrageenan, Ground Oats, Rice Flour, Wheat Germ, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Sucrose, Fructose, Artificial Flavors, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, d-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Biotin, Yucca schidigera Extract, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K), Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Carbonate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Rosemary Extract, Carotene, Citric Acid (a Preservative), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Nicotinic Acid, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite Cobalt Carbonate.

I totally agree. I own an animal rescue farm and I went through the whole Mazuri fad. And truthfully, it was nothing more than a fad. Animals seemed to like it only because there were so many ingredients to choose from. But once I discovered that you could feed Mazuri Sow Chow to your chickens and visa versa , another Hollywood name went down the tubes. In fact, if you check the shelves of RURAL markets, Mazuri items are missing. Not because they've all been purchased but because they haven't been restocked.

 

[Lokkje]

I adopted a leopard tortoise with no skills and no experience whatsoever from another person who had absolutely no knowledge of leopard tortoise needs. I have had desert tortoises in Arizona for many years and they are very different than the leopard. The leopard I had adopted was looking like a “failure to thrive” stuck under 50 g for many months with pyramiding on the shell and eating grocery store poor quality lettuces. I started soaking, I started using a variety of weeds, cactus pads, grasses and other items and still was getting nowhere. I was at a loss and have been following quite a number of recommendations from people on this forum. One of them was to try Mazuri pellets. My tortoise hates them (the deserts love them as I used them upon them). It doesn’t matter if I soak them, grind them, mix them or anything else. What I did discover, however, was that when I started getting dry leaf supplements from people like Will I could add things that attracted my tortoise to the food mix. Currently his two favorites are nettle and raspberry leaves although he’s gone through phases where he likes dry rose petals or dry hibiscus. I have multiple fresh hibiscus plants that the desert tortoises eat but he won’t touch them. Tortoises are interesting to try to feed and to try to give healthy complete diets and I think what everybody’s really trying to say is if the Mazuri pellets help them to get their tortoises to eat properly, grow well or get through the winter then it’s terrific. Not that it matters, but I’m a physician (endocrinologist). I also own horses and dogs and I have a friend that develops specialized horse pellets/feed for various health conditions. Equine nutrition has changed tremendously (as has human) as we have developed knowledge and gained experience and I agree with everyone on the forum that sharing their knowledge and experience hatching, raising, and maintaining healthy tortoises is much more valuable than reading an ingredient list. Unfortunately, as is well documented on this forum, there is very little understanding or experience through most of the veterinary community on the proper care of many tortoise breeds so we just do our best and share our experiences. It would be great if we could start sharing publications of well performed prospective research on diet for tortoises but it isn’t likely to be funded so I just rely on people who have done years of work with excellent results and there are many on this forum. Great and interesting discussion! PS...All of my tortoises have an obsession with eating dog poop and it’s very annoying.

 

[Tom]

I totally agree. I own an animal rescue farm and I went through the whole Mazuri fad. And truthfully, it was nothing more than a fad. Animals seemed to like it only because there were so many ingredients to choose from. But once I discovered that you could feed Mazuri Sow Chow to your chickens and visa versa , another Hollywood name went down the tubes. In fact, if you check the shelves of RURAL markets, Mazuri items are missing. Not because they've all been purchased but because they haven't been restocked.

A fad? Its been around for 30+ years and they sell thousands of bags of it annually.

 

[RosemaryDW]

My horse, the previous tort (past away in his 90's), and my current tort, all eat the same stuff: Pre Alpin. The company is German (I'm Dutch, so their neighbor?) and they make natural horse, rodents, tortoise and other livestock foods.
The horse/tortoise one is exactly the same:meadow grasses, herbs, flowers, weeds from the Alps. Zoomed tortoise grasslands comes the closest to Pre Alpin I think. Yes the majority of my horses diet is hay/grass/weeds and the torts weeds/leafy greens etc, but the Pre Alpin is a nice completion of the diet.

We can’t get Pre Alpine in the U.S. so we aren’t going to be able to give a true comparison. It does look better to me—longer fibers and less sugar—but I don’t own enough tortoises to judge one over the other and in my climate I don’t need any supplements at all.

We do have a very experienced breeder here, Will at @Kapidolo Farms, who feed only ZooMed, but I don’t think he gets into the Mazuri vs. ZooMed conversation, at least not that I’ve noticed.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

A fad? Its been around for 30+ years and they sell thousands of bags of it annually.

I thought that was amusing as well.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I adopted a leopard tortoise with no skills and no experience whatsoever from another person who had absolutely no knowledge of leopard tortoise needs. I have had desert tortoises in Arizona for many years and they are very different than the leopard. The leopard I had adopted was looking like a “failure to thrive” stuck under 50 g for many months with pyramiding on the shell and eating grocery store poor quality lettuces. I started soaking, I started using a variety of weeds, cactus pads, grasses and other items and still was getting nowhere. I was at a loss and have been following quite a number of recommendations from people on this forum. One of them was to try Mazuri pellets. My tortoise hates them (the deserts love them as I used them upon them). It doesn’t matter if I soak them, grind them, mix them or anything else. What I did discover, however, was that when I started getting dry leaf supplements from people like Will I could add things that attracted my tortoise to the food mix. Currently his two favorites are nettle and raspberry leaves although he’s gone through phases where he likes dry rose petals or dry hibiscus. I have multiple fresh hibiscus plants that the desert tortoises eat but he won’t touch them. Tortoises are interesting to try to feed and to try to give healthy complete diets and I think what everybody’s really trying to say is if the Mazuri pellets help them to get their tortoises to eat properly, grow well or get through the winter then it’s terrific. Not that it matters, but I’m a physician (endocrinologist). I also own horses and dogs and I have a friend that develops specialized horse pellets/feed for various health conditions. Equine nutrition has changed tremendously (as has human) as we have developed knowledge and gained experience and I agree with everyone on the forum that sharing their knowledge and experience hatching, raising, and maintaining healthy tortoises is much more valuable than reading an ingredient list. Unfortunately, as is well documented on this forum, there is very little understanding or experience through most of the veterinary community on the proper care of many tortoise breeds so we just do our best and share our experiences. It would be great if we could start sharing publications of well performed prospective research on diet for tortoises but it isn’t likely to be funded so I just rely on people who have done years of work with excellent results and there are many on this forum. Great and interesting discussion! PS...All of my tortoises have an obsession with eating dog poop and it’s very annoying.

My tortoises love dog poop almost as much as the Mazuri 5M21. Almost.
Redfoot are disgusting.

 

[Sue Ann]

Why is mazuri so popular? Tbh, I don't get it. The way to read an ingredients list is, the ingredient mentioned first, is what the product contains most of. Then the seccond etc etc.


I have a horse and horses and herbivore tortoises are very similar when it comes to feeding. You see the same type of stuff in horsefeed, super popular but ingredients wise very mediocre.
My horse has a serious chronic illness and feeding certain ingredients like corn, molasses, soy/hulls etc make it worse. So a long time ago (horse is 24 now) I had to do some serious research in horsefood and ingredients.


To me the ingredients are not great. Mazuri LS is a bit better because it at least contains timothy hay as the biggest ingredient, but still, mediocre in my opnion. Mazuri TD's biggest ingredient is soybean hulls, so the shell of a soybean? then corn, soymeal, wheat midds, molasses (=sugar/syrup) etc.
To me that is not great.


Sure it contains fiber, quite low protein. Cat and dog hair also contains lots of fiber? or chicken feathers. I think they both contain very low quality ingredients, 1 more than the other.


My horse, the previous tort (past away in his 90's), and my current tort, all eat the same stuff: Pre Alpin. The company is German (I'm Dutch, so their neighbor?) and they make natural horse, rodents, tortoise and other livestock foods.
The horse/tortoise one is exactly the same:meadow grasses, herbs, flowers, weeds from the Alps. Zoomed tortoise grasslands comes the closest to Pre Alpin I think. Yes the majority of my horses diet is hay/grass/weeds and the torts weeds/leafy greens etc, but the Pre Alpin is a nice completion of the diet.


You see this in alot of tortoise foods. I looked at Komodo cucumber for instance: zero cucumber and all soy/corn/wheat. Interesting?


Mazuri tortoise diet:
Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, wheat middlings, cane molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, dl-methionine, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (form of vitamin E), biotin, cholecalciferol, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, folic acid, riboflavin, preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, nicotinic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, citric acid, l-lysine, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate.


Mazuri LS:
Ground Timothy Hay, Ground Soybean Hulls, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Oat Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Cane Molasses, Dried Apple Pomace, Ground Flaxseed, Carrageenan, Ground Oats, Rice Flour, Wheat Germ, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Sucrose, Fructose, Artificial Flavors, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, d-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Biotin, Yucca schidigera Extract, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K), Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Carbonate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Rosemary Extract, Carotene, Citric Acid (a Preservative), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Nicotinic Acid, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite Cobalt Carbonate.

I don’t know, but my guy loves Mazuri LS chows it down he is growing fast and healthy

 

[queen koopa]

It's actually the corn/molasses combo that does it. It's the same with horses, they like sweet, when they've tasted that once, they want it. My horse wouldn't eat the pre alpin, he refused. Now he loves it.

Yep. I have horses as well. And those 2 are terrible for horses. Oh the sugar ? Koopa likes Mazuri if its soaked. Now that she’s adult and I’ve had her for over 2 years, I’ve got her diet to a great variety. I no longer feed mazuri, never liked the soy and corn in it. And yeah, at least the other one had Timothy and beet pulp.....

 

[Relic]

I have to admit, the sum total of my knowledge of horses was gleaned from the old black & white sit-com: "Mr. Ed." I had always thought they only ate sugar cubes and carrots.

In the words of King Arthur in Holy Grail: "This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes."

 

[Kim&Tim]

You know, for me it's not about brands or whatever. It's about what foods are made of and what ingredients do long-term.
I think if we weren't in the horse business for 70+ years, I would never have thought about this stuff. But we are and a lot has changed from my grandparents, parents and us. The majority of horses are being sold for recreation and sport, but quite a few are not or are our own. You see them grow up from foal to old age. You see their deseases etc, you talk to other folks in the business.
Then you see parallels with issues/deseases of other herbivores with very similar diets naturally and the similar foods the industry makes for them with the same ingredients.

We still feed the horse mazuri so to speak, but not in the same amounts and it's mixed with other gras/herb pellets and mueslis. It has to do with acceptability and cost! Simple as that. Grass/herb pellets cost double or triple even and because they're not sweet, less acceptable/fussy eating. Feeding 1 horse like that, sure, feeding 70, no.

It is interesting; mazuri is nutrazu in Europe. Dodson&Horrell are the manufacturers of nutrazu. Dodson&horrell make our pellets and lots of other foods for zoos/grass eating animals.

 

[Kim&Tim]

I have to admit, the sum total of my knowledge of horses was gleaned from the old black & white sit-com: "Mr. Ed." I had always thought they only ate sugar cubes and carrots.

In the words of King Arthur in Holy Grail: "This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes."

Ha ha? well, you've learned a bit!

 

[lxsnmls]

All's I know as a new (proud) parent to an inherited desert tortoise (age unknown), when I researched diet/care all the credible desert tortoise sites said NOT Tto feed commercial tortoise diets period. Watching him, I find it fascinating to witness what true browsers/foragers they are: when this year's crop of weeds in his habitat/enclosure were green, I left the ones I determined to be "tort safe"... Terry Tortelli would find a weed he liked and eat it down to nothing one day then be on to something else the next, even if there were still some of the prior day's favorite. OR, he would take a take a few bites of one type and move on to the next and on and on. The one thing that is a consistent favorite of his are mulberry leaves, which are supposed to be a good "staple" for desert torts... on the other hand, he won't touch dried alfalfa which is also supposed to be a good staple. Now that the weeds have all dried up, I'm scrambling to get plants native to his wild habitat planted and growing for his browsing pleasure ;-)

 

[ZEROPILOT]

If the question was:
"Are products like MAZURI necessary for tortoises keeping?"
The answer would be a very fast "no".
I have no doubt that an ideal natural diet is best.
But as keepers of exotic animals, keeping these animals in areas where they do not naturally live, Mazuri is very helpful.
And I still have seen no proof that it is the least bit harmful......except anecdotally.
I've been using it sporadically for over 20 years. As a part of the diet. Some days the sole ingredient. And my Redfoot are as beautiful and as healthy as anyones.
This exact topic has come up several times and I still can not agree that Mazuri is anything but a decent and real (and a responsible) option.

 

[Lokkje]

All's I know as a new (proud) parent to an inherited desert tortoise (age unknown), when I researched diet/care all the credible desert tortoise sites said NOT Tto feed commercial tortoise diets period. Watching him, I find it fascinating to witness what true browsers/foragers they are: when this year's crop of weeds in his habitat/enclosure were green, I left the ones I determined to be "tort safe"... Terry Tortelli would find a weed he liked and eat it down to nothing one day then be on to something else the next, even if there were still some of the prior day's favorite. OR, he would take a take a few bites of one type and move on to the next and on and on. The one thing that is a consistent favorite of his are mulberry leaves, which are supposed to be a good "staple" for desert torts... on the other hand, he won't touch dried alfalfa which is also supposed to be a good staple. Now that the weeds have all dried up, I'm scrambling to get plants native to his wild habitat planted and growing for his browsing pleasureView attachment 296715 ;-)

Lovely tortoise!

 

[Kim&Tim]

All's I know as a new (proud) parent to an inherited desert tortoise (age unknown), when I researched diet/care all the credible desert tortoise sites said NOT Tto feed commercial tortoise diets period. Watching him, I find it fascinating to witness what true browsers/foragers they are: when this year's crop of weeds in his habitat/enclosure were green, I left the ones I determined to be "tort safe"... Terry Tortelli would find a weed he liked and eat it down to nothing one day then be on to something else the next, even if there were still some of the prior day's favorite. OR, he would take a take a few bites of one type and move on to the next and on and on. The one thing that is a consistent favorite of his are mulberry leaves, which are supposed to be a good "staple" for desert torts... on the other hand, he won't touch dried alfalfa which is also supposed to be a good staple. Now that the weeds have all dried up, I'm scrambling to get plants native to his wild habitat planted and growing for his browsing pleasureView attachment 296715 ;-)

He's lovely ?

 

[Kim&Tim]

If the question was:
"Are products like MAZURI necessary for tortoises keeping?"
The answer would be a very fast "no".
I have no doubt that an ideal natural diet is best.
But as keepers of exotic animals, keeping these animals in areas where they do not naturally live, Mazuri is very helpful.
And I still have seen no proof that it is the least bit harmful......except anecdotally.
I've been using it sporadically for over 20 years. As a part of the diet. Some days the sole ingredient. And my Redfoot are as beautiful and as healthy as anyones.
This exact topic has come up several times and I still can not agree that Mazuri is anything but a decent and real (and a responsible) option.

No it wasn't the question? It is much broader than that but I've written that all down in previous posts. But it's ok? Eventhough things have been discussed before, never means you shouldn't discuss them again. Things change, the world changes, new insights etc. Always keep thinking!

 

[lxsnmls]

He's lovely ?

Ya think so? I've seen others that seem to have much "prettier"/more vibrant shells, but I'm crazy about him... he's my Zen Master ;-)

 

[lxsnmls]

Lovely tortoise!

I see you're in Phoenix and have (or had) DTs... some others I've seen have much "prettier"/more vibrant colored shells and I've wondered why his looks so "muted/muddy"... does coloration vary between habitats/territories? No matter, I'm crazy about him... he's my Zen Master ;-)

 

[Tom]

I don’t know, but my guy loves Mazuri LS chows it down he is growing fast and healthy

That is great. With time, any tortoise can be introduced to it and I think most will be happy to eat it once they like it.

 

[Cathie G]

That is great. With time, any tortoise can be introduced to it and I think most will be happy to eat it once they like it.

I finally bought some. So far Saphire won't but I'm not giving up. I have my ways.