Why is Mazuri so popular, I don't get it.

[Kim&Tim]

That's so right to do tho...sometimes I think that we cause eating and behavior problems simply by the way we treat them...

Exactly! Sometimes I'm guilty of it too, I totally admit it. But then I snap out of it ha ha. I'm like hey, this is some good quality greens here, I grow them myself, you don't like it? Too bad. Sure, I chop new things up and mix with favorites, you don't like it? Well...

I do make an exception with serious illness or something. Things can go south very quickly. But I'm sure you'll do that too! But if healthy... Tomorrow is another day?

 

[Kim&Tim]

This is crazy, this thread just popped up and I just ordered this bag of Mazuri for the first time last night! Lol Kim&Tim are you monitoring my internet useage???View attachment 296591

I also am not sure what the hype is about because my tort hasn’t tried it yet but it seems like a lot of the people on these forums swear by it. I tried to get my tortoise to eat the zoo n
med grassland pellets and he really skews away from it, so I figured this would be a good alternative.

Have you guys developed a preference between the original mazuri or the LS?

Yes I am, I know everything you do?

I wouldn't buy any of them?? but... If had 2, i'd pick LS. It contains timothy, it absolutely the best of the 2.

 

[Tom]

No one is impressed by the ingredients list, but everyone is impressed by the results from feeding it. Those ingredients that people don't like are essentially a delivery vehicle for the nutrients that we do like, in the correct balance, that we want to get into them.

This debate has been had a dozen times here. Mazuri is a good supplemental food and its helps to ensure there are no minor nutritional deficiencies in the limited diets that we all tend to feed. South Africa has more than 22,000 species of plants and succulents available for tortoises to munch on. I can't match that. Not even close. Mazuri was formulated to meet all the nutritional needs of tortoises. Specifically, it was made for Galapagos tortoises. Decades of use have shown it to be a good food that brings good results. I used to be one of those people that was against this "artificial crap", but I opened my mind, listened to others who knew more than me, and tried it.

It does not leave them "nutritionally malnourished". Quite the opposite.

No one ever has to feed Mazuri. Tortoises can certainly be well fed without it. This doesn't mean it is bad, or that it isn't a good way to get good nutrition into a tortoise.

I believe part of why they like it so much is that it resembles feces when soaked. At least some tortoise species seek out and eat mammal feces as a food source in the wild. It is a great way for them to get nutrients that would otherwise be literally out of their reach. Let a tortoise roam a backyard where a dog has recently pooped and see what happens. I don't recommend this, but anyone who has made this mistake knows what will happen.

I can understand why someone with little or no experience using this product would feel this way. I used to feel that way too. I was wrong. Do a side-by-side feeding trial with groups of clutch mates, and you to will see why it is not bad and why we recommend it. If you are the type of person that likes everything to be "organic" and "natural", then never feed this product or any other prepared food to your tortoise. Either way can work and either way can produce a healthy happy tortoise if done correctly. Personally, I like the middle ground. I feed mostly "natural" foods that I grow or find, but I like to use a little Mazuri once in a while for cheap insurance.

Another benefit of occasionally using Mazuri is that it can be stored for months at time and still retain good nutritional qualities. This can literally be a life saver when civil unrest, viral pandemics, power outages, or natural disasters prevent people from getting the normal "natural and organic" foods that they prefer to use. If you can't get to the store for one reason or another, and the ground outside is covered in snow, Mazuri can keep your tortoise fed for a few days until other foods can be sourced. All the better if your tortoise already knows what it is and likes it.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I'd stick with original...also...I go to the local feed store...I take 2 big black plastic bags with me...for $4 I collect different hays from their stacks and that feeds my locked up tortoises for the winter...my Safeway donates boxes of greens weekly thru the winter...I walk around my neighborhood and free my neighbors yards of weeds...plus everything I gow in my yards is food for tortoises...almost 100 Rose of Sharon bushes...grape vines...pumpkins.

 

[Tom]

I wouldn't buy any of them?? but... If had 2, i'd pick LS. It contains timothy, it absolutely the best of the 2.

What do you base this recommendation on? Do you have extensive experience feeding both, and other prepared foods? Or is this based on your "feelings" after reading a couple of ingredients lists?

Most tortoises don't like the LS. You can soak it for two hours and it remains hard, which makes it difficult for tortoises with smaller mouths to eat. Original Mazuri turns to mush, and it can be fed to tiny hatchlings with no problem.

The ingredients in LS do look better on paper, and that is exactly why they made it. To appease the vast number of people who make their buying decisions based on emotion and their perceptions of the product, vs. looking at decades of evidence and personal experience of actual use of the product.


Side note that should have been added to the previous post: Yet another benefit of Mazuri is that it can be mixied in with new and better foods to get a tortoise to eat it. Like when a sulcata is reluctant to try dry hay. Start mixing in hay with some soaked Mazuri and they learn to like the hay in short order, and then the Mazuri can be gradually reduced and phased out.

 

[OkAdiza]

There's certain foods he just won't eat easily. If I feed only greens for two weeks he won't eat any. Or if I feed greens mixed with some fruit, he'll pick out the fruit. If I mix 4 pieces of soften Mazuri mixed with greens he will devour the whole plate within minutes. So rather than starve him weeks at a time till he gives in it's just easier with the Mazuri.

This has been happening with my Hermann’s for a few months now. He literally will look at food, sniff and leave if there isn’t Mazuri present. But the times I mix it up with his greens he does eat practically everything. How often to you mix in? I do think my once a week is maybe too little because he really won’t eat otherwise.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

This has been happening with my Hermann’s for a few months now. He literally will look at food, sniff and leave if there isn’t Mazuri present. But the times I mix it up with his greens he does eat practically everything. How often to you mix in? I do think my once a week is maybe too little because he really won’t eat otherwise.

I mix in a little Mazuri about 3 times a week but I never feed Mazuri only.

 

[Kim&Tim]

What do you base this recommendation on? Do you have extensive experience feeding both, and other prepared foods? Or is this based on your "feelings" after reading a couple of ingredients lists?

Most tortoises don't like the LS. You can soak it for two hours and it remains hard, which makes it difficult for tortoises with smaller mouths to eat. Original Mazuri turns to mush, and it can be fed to tiny hatchlings with no problem.

The ingredients in LS do look better on paper, and that is exactly why they made it. To appease the vast number of people who make their buying decisions based on emotion and their perceptions of the product, vs. looking at decades of evidence and personal experience of actual use of the product.


Side note that should have been added to the previous post: Yet another benefit of Mazuri is that it can be mixied in with new and better foods to get a tortoise to eat it. Like when a sulcata is reluctant to try dry hay. Start mixing in hay with some soaked Mazuri and they learn to like the hay in short order, and then the Mazuri can be gradually reduced and phased out.

I'm not organic, vegan, vegetarian etc. I'm from a horsefarm, nothing organic about it.


You know I get it, I see see all the benefits etc, I understand.

The thing is this. The fact that people have been doing things for 30+ years, means everything and nothing to me. When people say that, I'm like sure, I'll hear you, I think about and then make my mind up. I think. The result can be: yes I'm going to do it exactly like that, maybe I'll do it a little different, maybe I'll make a combo, maybe I'll research more, but I think!

For 30+ years every vet, specialist etc would advice farms and private horse owners to collectively deworm every 8 weeks. We did that for many years. That has changed since 10 years, because they found out that horses where immune to every deworm meds at the age of 20+. This meant that there was nothing you could do for them anymore, the meds didn't work. So for instance you'd have a horse full of blood worms and nothing could be done, it would become very ill and die. So they changed that policy very fast abd radically, within 2 years they'd advise collective worm count at labs and only deworm when there are too many eggs in a specific amount of manure.

Same for horsefeed. Horses eat grass and hay, but are also fed on pellets. 30+ years ago a combo of corn, soy, wheat and vitamins became popular. Before that the majority still fed single grains in combo with hay/grass. So we fed that too, horses grew nice and muscular, they liked it, they performed well, were being sold well, it's pretty cheap. So a win/win!

When horses are 15+, they are prone to a desease named PPID (Pituitary Pars Intermedia Dysfunction) or Cushing disease. It's serious, uncurable unfortunately and they will die, but with some care they can live pretty well untill symptoms become to bad. Some horsebreeds are more prone to it, but quite a substantial amount of horses will get this from 15 and up.
They also found out a few years ago that feeding these pellets make the symptoms worse. This has to do with sugars from the corn, molasses they put in it, sugars from wheat and the effect of soy. They didn't know that 20 years ago, they do now and I'm glad so I can do things different for the 24 year old horse I have myself. My mom had a horse with this 10+ years ago, but we didn't know, vets didn't know.

So, I'm not an organic hippie, I'm a 42 year old farm woman who just tries to think about things, because she knows things sometimes change eventhough we've done them for many years ourselves.

I just try to think for myself, listen to others with experience, make my mind up.

 

[turtlesteve]

I have a full bag of the mazuri LS that is probably going to get wasted. I don't care how good the ingredients are if they won't eat it. Right now, I need to have some prepared food around to "fill out" the diet when fresh greens are less available. It's either regular mazuri or grocery store lettuce, which I think is worse. In another 3-5 years I will be able to grow enough of everything to have food year round.

Steve

 

[Tom]

I'm not organic, vegan, vegetarian etc. I'm from a horsefarm, nothing organic about it.


You know I get it, I see see all the benefits etc, I understand.

The thing is this. The fact that people have been doing things for 30+ years, means everything and nothing to me. When people say that, I'm like sure, I'll hear you, I think about and then make my mind up. I think. The result can be: yes I'm going to do it exactly like that, maybe I'll do it a little different, maybe I'll make a combo, maybe I'll research more, but I think!

For 30+ years every vet, specialist etc would advice farms and private horse owners to collectively deworm every 8 weeks. We did that for many years. That has changed since 10 years, because they found out that horses where immune to every deworm meds at the age of 20+. This meant that there was nothing you could do for them anymore, the meds didn't work. So for instance you'd have a horse full of blood worms and nothing could be done, it would become very ill and die. So they changed that policy very fast abd radically, within 2 years they'd advise collective worm count at labs and only deworm when there are too many eggs in a specific amount of manure.

Same for horsefeed. Horses eat grass and hay, but are also fed on pellets. 30+ years ago a combo of corn, soy, wheat and vitamins became popular. Before that the majority still fed single grains in combo with hay/grass. So we fed that too, horses grew nice and muscular, they liked it, they performed well, were being sold well, it's pretty cheap. So a win/win!

When horses are 15+, they are prone to a desease named PPID (Pituitary Pars Intermedia Dysfunction) or Cushing disease. It's serious, uncurable unfortunately and they will die, but with some care they can live pretty well untill symptoms become to bad. Some horsebreeds are more prone to it, but quite a substantial amount of horses will get this from 15 and up.
They also found out a few years ago that feeding these pellets make the symptoms worse. This has to do with sugars from the corn, molasses they put in it, sugars from wheat and the effect of soy. They didn't know that 20 years ago, they do now and I'm glad so I can do things different for the 24 year old horse I have myself. My mom had a horse with this 10+ years ago, but we didn't know, vets didn't know.

So, I'm not an organic hippie, I'm a 42 year old farm woman who just tries to think about things, because she knows things sometimes change eventhough we've done them for many years ourselves.

I just try to think for myself, listen to others with experience, make my mind up.

This is a good conversation. I'm getting to know you better and seeing where you are coming from.

When I have horse nutrition questions, I'm calling you. My wife is a horse person too, and I've heard a lot of this from her too. But I think you missed the point of my post. You are basing your horse feeding recommendations off of decades of first hand practical experience. You've seen with your own eyes the results of feeding a horse one way or another. You are, apparently, making tortoise food recommendations without this first hand experience to back up your preferences or assertions. That is what I'm questioning. I'm most definitely not trying to label you as any of those terms you mentioned. It matters not to me what you eat anyway. Just trying to determine where your tortoise food preferences are coming from.

I understand your examples in the horse world. We have parallels in the tortoise world. To THIS day breeders, pet stores, and vets are still telling people that sulcatas are desert tortoises and need to be kept bone dry. This incorrect myth started 30+ years ago and still persists, resulting in the deaths of countless babies. Just like your example with the horse food, we are trying to undo 30 years of thinking about this all wrong.

You are most definitely not the first person to question why we feed something that looks so bad on paper to our tortoises. I questioned it, and I also bad-mouthed it too. I've lived and learned. I don't rely on Mazuri. I don't recommend people feed only Mazuri. I don't think its the best thing ever invented. I do, on the other hand, find it to be a useful product and a good supplemental tortoise food, and I've been pleased with the results from feeding it to 100s of tortoises of all ages and species for the last 10 years.

 

[Kim&Tim]

This is a good conversation. I'm getting to know you better and seeing where you are coming from.

When I have horse nutrition questions, I'm calling you. My wife is a horse person too, and I've heard a lot of this from her too. But I think you missed the point of my post. You are basing your horse feeding recommendations off of decades of first hand practical experience. You've seen with your own eyes the results of feeding a horse one way or another. You are, apparently, making tortoise food recommendations without this first hand experience to back up your preferences or assertions. That is what I'm questioning. I'm most definitely not trying to label you as any of those terms you mentioned. It matters not to me what you eat anyway. Just trying to determine where your tortoise food preferences are coming from.

I understand your examples in the horse world. We have parallels in the tortoise world. To THIS day breeders, pet stores, and vets are still telling people that sulcatas are desert tortoises and need to be kept bone dry. This incorrect myth started 30+ years ago and still persists, resulting in the deaths of countless babies. Just like your example with the horse food, we are trying to undo 30 years of thinking about this all wrong.

You are most definitely not the first person to question why we feed something that looks so bad on paper to our tortoises. I questioned it, and I also bad-mouthed it too. I've lived and learned. I don't rely on Mazuri. I don't recommend people feed only Mazuri. I don't think its the best thing ever invented. I do, on the other hand, find it to be a useful product and a good supplemental tortoise food, and I've been pleased with the results from feeding it to 100s of tortoises of all ages and species for the last 10 years.

This is a good conversation, I like it! And you know, I'm not trying to be a know-it-all here and pretend I know it all. I don't, I know quite a few things and I've learned quite few things, but I still learn every day. I'm open to things, but I question them too! I also get where you're coming from!

My recommendation wasn't really one? She asked what I would pick and I honestly just said none, because at this point, I wouldn't. Then I said If I had to pick 1, I'd pick the LS, because the ingredients agree with me more because the majority is Timothy hay, which is more in the line of what a tortoise would eat naturally, instead if soy and corn.

The seccond reason would be the addictive factor it can have. I saw it with my own horse when I switched to pre alpin, he hated it because he wanted sweet, all horses do. He wouldn't eat it and it became very difficult. He was very ill at the time so he needed to eat, but not his original pellets who made it worse. We got there in the end, but it wasn't fun.

I know horses aren't torts. But I do know, out of experience, what certain foods can do. Even my old dad, who's as old fashioned as they come, had to admit it (and that was hard?). The pellets do more with a horse than make them grow nicely etc, they also have an influence on their behaviour. Food in general, mainly pellets and grain types, have an influence.

We had 2 stallions a few years ago, 3 and 4 and both had a nasty temperament. So I said to my dad, maybe if we feed them differently, they'd become a bit more docile. He knows food has an influence, that's not new info, but not the pellets, they were fine, not heavy on the grains, they're fine. So I said you feed 1 your way, i feed the other one my way. So we did and mine became a bit better, not a sheep, but a bit better to manage. And it makes sense, not because I want to be right, but because the pellets are full of starches=sugar and molasses=sugar. They're big horses, they eat 2/3 kilo's a day+hay. So it made a difference, he reluctantly had to admit. And of course with my ppid horse, so then he realized, yeah it does do more.

A friend of mine breeds guineapigs for fun and shows?So she also deals with their medical issues. The majority of guineapig foods are heavy on the soy, corn, wheat and alfalfa for 30+ years. This started around the same time horsefood started to change. Guineapigs are very prone to blatter infections and kidney stones. Since a few years they've realized that these pellets have something to do with that. She's also experimenting with more natural pellets made of hay, herbs etc for a few years now. And the new generation of these little critters have less issues than their parents.

What do horses, guineapigs and Torts have in common? Not much, except they eat similar type foods naturally= hay, grasses, herbs, flowers, etc. The industry also makes the same type of foods for them for 30+ years: soy, soy hulls, corn, wheat. combo's.

So all these things make me wonder. I'm a middle ground person too, but all these things make me wonder.

 

[Cleopatra 2020]

I mix in a little Mazuri about 3 times a week but I never feed Mazuri only.

Is there a reason why you don't feed it only? Because I can put a soaked nugget next to her pile of greens even with some cactus pad in there and she'll still eat everything... LOL got. But probably eat the cactus pad first just depends with her she definitely always eats the greens

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Is there a reason why you don't feed it only? Because I can put a soaked nugget next to her pile of greens even with some cactus pad in there and she'll still eat everything... LOL got. But probably eat the cactus pad first just depends with her she definitely always eats the greens

No reason really. I actually never feed one thing only. I offer at least 3 different good food items daily (not including the Mazuri on the days I use it). So I guess it's just out of habit.

 

[wellington]

In short a lot of people need a variety specially during cold winters up in the northern states and Mazuri helps with adding needed missing parts. I use it a lot more in winter and as a treat once a week in summer. I have no eating disorders and healthy tortoises that I know of. Know vets or any illnesses yet. Variety is not a bad thing to feed as long as it's part of the diet not the only diet. Some people only feed mazuri and that I wouldn't recommend.

 

[Tom]

This is a good conversation, I like it! And you know, I'm not trying to be a know-it-all here and pretend I know it all. I don't, I know quite a few things and I've learned quite few things, but I still learn every day. I'm open to things, but I question them too! I also get where you're coming from!

My recommendation wasn't really one? She asked what I would pick and I honestly just said none, because at this point, I wouldn't. Then I said If I had to pick 1, I'd pick the LS, because the ingredients agree with me more because the majority is Timothy hay, which is more in the line of what a tortoise would eat naturally, instead if soy and corn.

The seccond reason would be the addictive factor it can have. I saw it with my own horse when I switched to pre alpin, he hated it because he wanted sweet, all horses do. He wouldn't eat it and it became very difficult. He was very ill at the time so he needed to eat, but not his original pellets who made it worse. We got there in the end, but it wasn't fun.

I know horses aren't torts. But I do know, out of experience, what certain foods can do. Even my old dad, who's as old fashioned as they come, had to admit it (and that was hard?). The pellets do more with a horse than make them grow nicely etc, they also have an influence on their behaviour. Food in general, mainly pellets and grain types, have an influence.

We had 2 stallions a few years ago, 3 and 4 and both had a nasty temperament. So I said to my dad, maybe if we feed them differently, they'd become a bit more docile. He knows food has an influence, that's not new info, but not the pellets, they were fine, not heavy on the grains, they're fine. So I said you feed 1 your way, i feed the other one my way. So we did and mine became a bit better, not a sheep, but a bit better to manage. And it makes sense, not because I want to be right, but because the pellets are full of starches=sugar and molasses=sugar. They're big horses, they eat 2/3 kilo's a day+hay. So it made a difference, he reluctantly had to admit. And of course with my ppid horse, so then he realized, yeah it does do more.

A friend of mine breeds guineapigs for fun and shows?So she also deals with their medical issues. The majority of guineapig foods are heavy on the soy, corn, wheat and alfalfa for 30+ years. This started around the same time horsefood started to change. Guineapigs are very prone to blatter infections and kidney stones. Since a few years they've realized that these pellets have something to do with that. She's also experimenting with more natural pellets made of hay, herbs etc for a few years now. And the new generation of these little critters have less issues than their parents.

What do horses, guineapigs and Torts have in common? Not much, except they eat similar type foods naturally= hay, grasses, herbs, flowers, etc. The industry also makes the same type of foods for them for 30+ years: soy, soy hulls, corn, wheat. combo's.

So all these things make me wonder. I'm a middle ground person too, but all these things make me wonder.

You make some good points and I do think the examples of other animals have merit in regard to our tortoises.

Seems like your previous horse pellets were like Mazuri and the Pre Alpin is more like the Zoomed Grassland Pellets. Much better food, but the tortoises are reluctant to try it at first. I find they eventually love it if a person takes the time to introduce it.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

MAZURI is one of those times when the product equals more than the sum of its contents.
It is truly a wonderful product.
Used for decades.
Tried and true.
The results are undeniable.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I have a full bag of the mazuri LS that is probably going to get wasted. I don't care how good the ingredients are if they won't eat it. Right now, I need to have some prepared food around to "fill out" the diet when fresh greens are less available. It's either regular mazuri or grocery store lettuce, which I think is worse. In another 3-5 years I will be able to grow enough of everything to have food year round.

Steve

My RF will not eat the LS.
In fact, I can't leave it in my pen because rats come for it at night.
It WOULD be a good rat food. If that was the intent.

 

[Tom]

My RF will not eat the LS.
In fact, I can't leave it in my pen because rats come for it at night.
It WOULD be a good rat food. If that was the intent.

The only way I could get mine to eat the LS was to mix it with soaked original Mazuri.

 

[Maro2Bear]

I’m with Wellington on this issue as well. Once our Sully goes outside for the Summertime I don’t provide any Mazuri. Once Winter comes & our Sully is back inside with a much limited food supply she gets a cup or two of Mazuri per week. I no longer moisten the pellets - i hear the crunch crunch crunch.

 

[Kim&Tim]

You make some good points and I do think the examples of other animals have merit in regard to our tortoises.

Seems like your previous horse pellets were like Mazuri and the Pre Alpin is more like the Zoomed Grassland Pellets. Much better food, but the tortoises are reluctant to try it at first. I find they eventually love it if a person takes the time to introduce it.

Yeah that is a good comparison! That's it. And I pity the person who introduces pre alpin or grasslands. I am that person? and it's no bueno. He hates it and I'm certain if i'd soak some horse pellets, he'd love it.

You know how I do it? The cucumber sandwich is what I call it. I hydrate the grass pellets. I spread them out on a baking tray and let everything dry again. Once 200% dry, i put the loose stuff in the foodprocessor until super fine. This workes better for me then putting the grass pellets in the foodprocessor. That goes in a zip loc.

I cut 2 thin slices of cucumber, put the stuff on there, make a sandwich. I hand feed it and he eats it. When he sees the stuff he's like no, but disguised it works. When that goes well step 2, mixing with chopped up favorites. He can see the stuff, but it's super fine and he's more used to it. In normal soaked state it's a no no, fine like this acceptable.

We're now at the point that I can put it on some cut up favorites, he'll eat that no problem. So I'm going to increase it slowly.
But it's not fun, I get why mazuri is so popular?

But we're getting there, I have some experience with the 1200 pound equivalent of little Tim.