Why not dirt?
- Thread starter Lilly_Two
- Start date
That's a very good question and one I probably can't convince you of the correct answer. I feed my box turtles on a slab of cement outside in their yard. Because there are so many of them the food gets trampled and eventually covered with dirt. . .yes, DIRT! So why don't my box turtles become impacted with dirt and constipated? That's the reason we say don't use dirt - it gets on the food the tortoise eats it and eventually it clogs up the tortoise's works.
Ah ok, my tort currently is on coco coir but I was curious as ill be changing it up soon. I started thinking about this when I relised half of the posts tell people that we are trying to create the more natural environment for them with diet and enclosure yet we use special substrate.
Dirt…..a dirty word. The problem is “dirt” means many different things to many people.
The problem arises when ppl go to their nearest big box store or garden center and purchase a bag of “potting soil” or “organic dirt for gardening”.
You as the purchaser have no idea what is in that “dirt” - organic means nothing. Many organic plants are toxic. Many top soils sold in stores is a massive mix of “junk stuff” - mulch, shredded trees, cow manure, etc. Some bags include vermiculite, perlite, slow-release fertilizers & other soil “conditioners” - but NONE of these are meant for close contact with a tortoise. These bags of soil are intended for growing plants.
Soooo, that’s why garden center “top soil” is not good for use as a substrate.
The problem arises when ppl go to their nearest big box store or garden center and purchase a bag of “potting soil” or “organic dirt for gardening”.
You as the purchaser have no idea what is in that “dirt” - organic means nothing. Many organic plants are toxic. Many top soils sold in stores is a massive mix of “junk stuff” - mulch, shredded trees, cow manure, etc. Some bags include vermiculite, perlite, slow-release fertilizers & other soil “conditioners” - but NONE of these are meant for close contact with a tortoise. These bags of soil are intended for growing plants.
Soooo, that’s why garden center “top soil” is not good for use as a substrate.
What about soil from a personal compost bin? Would that be ok for use or from the backyard that doesn't use pesticides or anything?
MotherofDragons
Member
These are great points. I think it is almost an err on the side of caution thing. It can be an anxiety-inducing process to be sure that what your torts come into contact with is not dangerous to them in some way.
In the Tarantula world I was familiarized more with the cautionary tales of "organic" topsoil. It is very important the mix has no fertilizers at all, organic (animal manures) or man-made. Tom Moran, who is an authority in that hobby and makes educational videos, did not realize one year that the Topsoil he had always used now contained tiny little green fertilizer beads. As he wasn't a gardener it didn't occur to him what they were. He lost several animals before he realized it was all the ones who had been rehoused. Eventually the topsoil was identified as the cause of death.
All that said, I think careful sourcing and reading of labels could lead to a safe Topsoil. You have to understand that potting soil or garden soil, are not the same as topsoil, and all brands are not created equal- some have large chunks. I have created a natural mix of organic Topsoil for my tortoises and they have been on it for a year. I have used the same bags for Tarantulas, and Iguanas. Everyone is healthy, and my tortoises love burrowing in their topsoil.
MotherofDragons
Member
As a gardener, I would consider this an amendment like fertilizer, and would not use this exclusively as a substrate. It is safe to mix in part of their pen to aid in growing plants probably, but that would be the extent of my use for it in an enclosure personally. BUT, maybe someone else with more experience feels differently.
I use orchid bark for years and have never looked back. Speedy basks on it, burrows in it , comfortable to walk on it and it is easy to pick off food if trampled on. At the very beginning I used soil and the mess was an understatement.
Good question. I use the native dirt outside for all of my outdoor enclosures and all of my outdoor tortoises live on it. I don't use it indoors because indoor it needs to be kept damp, and there is too much other "stuff" mixed in for a damp indoor enclosure. You get all sorts of fungi, mold, bacteria, etc... That same dirt outside is subject to the wind and weather, UV all day, freezing in winter, baking in summer, etc..., and it all stays in balance out there.
As explained, any bought-in-a-bag soil from a store is made from composted yard waste and all sorts of other stuff that is not intended as substrate for animals to live on. All the other additives just make it worse. So many animals have died from on housed on store bought soil... Potting soil specifically is bad news for tortoises and always has some bad stuff in it.
I make my own compost and use it to amend the native dirt and grow plants to feed to the tortoises. Is it safe for tortoises to live on in an indoor enclosure? I suppose it depends on what is in your mix, and what stage of the composting process it is in. I don't feel comfortable using the stuff I make for that sort of indoor closed chamber application. Too much biological activity going on in there for my comfort. Also, depending on what your compost id made of, might they try to eat it? I don't have the answer and I have not experimented with this,
With the above in mind, that is why we recommend so few SAFE substrate options. All things considered, coco coir, cypress mulch and fine grade orchid bark are the best of all compromises, and all three have proven to be safe over the years. I can't say that about any other options. Why re-invent the wheel? We know what works and what doesn't.
