Why wouldn't this type of diet work?

[Camelot]

My Sulcata's are making me crazy, worrying about their health.

Yesterday I cooked three pumpkins (took almost all day to cut them up, cook in hot oven with small water added, and repeat process.)

What I am finding is that almost every Sulcata site recommends different items/supplements.

So I started thinking.

Winter's just around the corner and the clovers, dandelions, etc. that are part of my babies diet will be covered in snow.

Well, we hear so much these days about high fiber, low fat diets and "organic" foods that I was wondering why some of these items can't be included in a Tortoise diet.

Example: Camelot is SO finicky in what he eats. I'm excited we're up to 3 items- one of which is Romaine, which I want to cut way back on.

The other two are outdoors and will die soon as winter approaches.

So I pulled up "High Fiber, low protein, no fat" diet and got several hits.

Here is one example:

"Whole Grains

Your low-fat, high-fiber diet can include whole grains, which are grains that still have the brain, germ and endosperm components of the entire grain kernel. According to MayoClinic.com, whole grains are naturally low in fat, and their bran and germ make them higher in fiber than refined grains. Sources include whole-wheat bread or pasta, brown rice, popcorn and barley. Another good way to increase your low-fat, high-fiber grain intake is to have a whole grain cereal for breakfast, such as oatmeal or a whole-grain, fiber-enriched breakfast cereal."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/3...t-on-a-low-fat-high-fiber-diet/#ixzz1a7bnrx5T


Then I remembered last week when I was eating a Subway sandwich on whole wheat and accidentally dropped bread crumbs. When I looked over Camelot was SCARFING them up!

So why couldn't we use some of the "all natural" granola-type health foods out there?

It's okay if you tell me I'm losing my mind. What little I had left caring for Doxie rescues over the years I'm now losing over these 3 Sulcatas.

Thanks for any replies on why this doesn't make sense since it's mostly high fiber grains which (to me anyway) is pretty much the equivalency of high fiber grasses we're pushing on them.

Thanks, Lynne.

 

[RuthieHurry]

Thought I'd bump this, cuz I'd love to hear some expert input on this.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1a8uuXuoH

 

[ewam]

You might be able to pull out the plants and put it inside or in his enclosure.

 

[ascott]

"It's okay if you tell me I'm losing my mind."

Okay, you are losing what you have left of your mind I say that with a big smile here....I understand what your intent is...however, the site you visited is for human diet.... IMO these type of things should not be fed to a tortoise....

There may be others that will say; well, where is your scientific proof that they should not eat these things?....it does not take a scientist to now that if you shoot yourself in the foot....it is going to bleed and hurt like all get out, bad result.

I would say that during the winter months you will have to come to terms with you will likely need to supplement natural grown weeds with store bought items (certified organic would be my first choice)...keep in mind that if your tortoise is gorged all the other months of the year that he can be outdoors/or get outdoor weeds to eat then a few months of supplemental leafy greens will sustain him until the season arrives that the good goodies will again be in abundance....

Also, you can purchase a grow light and plant some of your own goodies....like in a closet or corner of a room where you can give the plants the full light attention...just a suggestion All here, IMHO that is.

 

[Kristina]

The problem with grains is that they are not easily digestible, even for us. You would be better off to offer fiber in the form of good quality grass hay (such as for horses) and know that the digestibility is higher and more natural. I love KitKat bars... if someone was sprinkling them all over, I would probably be scarfing them up, but that doesn't mean they are good for me

 

[ascott]

ooooooooo....kit kat bars......awww Kristina, now I have to run to the store, dang.....LOL

 

[dmmj]

I want to know where people are sprinkling them all over, and why?

 

[Kristina]

---

I want to know where people are sprinkling them all over, and why?

I don't have any clue, but I do not argue.

 

[Madkins007]

Grains are a tricky question. Few animals can eat unprocessed grains, and they are often loaded with toxins to defend them against being eaten.

Once you process the grains, by milling, etc., you can unlock the nutrients and make them more accessible to a lot of species. That is the idea behind Mazuri and lots of other kibble-type foods. Grains are cheap, consistent and easy to process like this.

Breads and pastas, however, are not a good mix of carbs, salts, etc. for tortoises- although there would be nothing wrong with an occasional bit of bread. The Shelled Warriors forum even suggests soaked bread to help fight some sorts of parasites.

 

[Laura]

how big are your torts? mine graze on grass. sone Mazuri supplement for the smaller ones..
do yours eat hay? if not try to get them used to it. It can be a good staple. Esp in winter.
grassy hay or orchard grass. timothy hay... get a bale at your local horse feed store for about $18.
Little ones can eat store bought produce,.Spring mix etc.
Why cook pumpkins? raw is better.

 

[ascott]

Just stay alert Cap....who ever sees it first tag us all in....LOL

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Laura made a very good suggestion. Small/young Sulcata can eat Spring Mix with other dark leafy greens added to it just to make it better. Add green leaf lettuce, kale, collards, escarole, endive, radicchio for example. Then sprinkle TNT over it 3 times a week. Feed a young Sulcata twice a day.

Teach your Sulcata to eat hay so during the winter you won't have any problem feeding them. I get hay from my feed store. I pay $2 for a huge bag of locally grown grass hay. It is soft and sweet smelling and just beautiful. I buy the biggest bags I can find and 2 bags of hay are about 1/2 a bale and Bob comes close to eating that half way thru winter. I also have arrangements with our local Market of Choice and they donate bags of produce to me twice a week. So I make it thru the winter pretty good. Go around to your stores and talk to the produce managers and see if you can't set yourself up like I did. And get some hay too. There ya go...oh, here's a care sheet with some good advice about what to feed your Sulcata...

http://africantortoise.com/

 

[stephiiberrybean]

I can't really answer your question in depth. I just remember reading about bread, wheat etc being hard for tortoises to digest and containing things that aren't good for the tortoise. Whole grain may sound right, but remember it was created for us. Whole grain doesn't grow in the wild, bread certainly doesn't (well not where our tortoises are from!)

Jimbo, my horse loves pop tarts and chocolate. Especially white chocolate. Just because he likes it doesn't mean its good for him or he's allowed it.
Berry, the baby horse will eat crisps, chocolate, noodles... anything she can get in her gob. Even just to suck it. Same goes for her doesn't mean it's good for her or she's allowed it.

Bread on the other hand (Both love bread) is ok for them. They scarf that stuff down and it does them no harm. (theres actually studies about it being good for horses?!) I do not know the science or anything all I know is they love it and are allowed it so have it as a treat.
Same for polos, mints, carrots, apples, pears, swede... All these human foods do them no harm in moderation as a treat.

So just because they like it doesn't mean its good for them. Just because it's good for us humans doesn't mean it works the same for them.

Try Hay for the winter. Also if your good at growing things you can order tortoise seed online and grow it in pots and then put it in your indoor enclosure. (Thats what i'm doing currently)

 

[Camelot]

how big are your torts? mine graze on grass. sone Mazuri supplement for the smaller ones..
do yours eat hay? if not try to get them used to it. It can be a good staple. Esp in winter.
grassy hay or orchard grass. timothy hay... get a bale at your local horse feed store for about $18.
Little ones can eat store bought produce,.Spring mix etc.
Why cook pumpkins? raw is better.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Camelot is 6 months and Bogie and Bacall are 3-4 years old.

The raw pumpkins were just too hard for them to eat, even when I hacked them into itty bitty pieces.

So I cooked a bunch of a little larger pieces and put them in the freezer to use throughout the year. They LOVE the pumpkin so far and since I baked them in a covered casserole with nothing more than a Tablespoon of water I'm pretty sure they didn't lose any nutrients.

For the life of me I can't get them to eat Timothy Hay. And the only other kind sold at the Farm supply store is Alfalfa- which of course has too much protein.

Last night I mixed a batch of soaked Timothy, those freeze dried pieces of cactus and mashed in some of the pumpkin and all they did was pick out the pumpkin and cactus.

They get really tired of me lecturing them on how lucky they are compared to all their little Tortoise cousins in Africa.

PS. Laura, Camelot could live off Romaine alone but I'm trying to slowly wean him back off that.

Bacall's a good girl. I watch her eat all kinds of grasses in the yard.

Bogie is a bad boy- he goes straight for dog poo.

Yesterday I started thumping him lightly on the head when he would start to bit into a piece and if I keep doing that maybe he'll stop. But you know how stubborn they are and at one point I was literally pulling a piece out of his clenched mouth!

 

[ascott]

that is too funny , thumping em on the head to stop eating poooooo....LOL well I believe that their stubbon streak is based on their lifelong learning experiences...and since they live like near forever LOL you may be thumping for some years to come.....you have me laughing on that one...

 

[Camelot]

that is too funny , thumping em on the head to stop eating poooooo....LOL well I believe that their stubbon streak is based on their lifelong learning experiences...and since they live like near forever LOL you may be thumping for some years to come.....you have me laughing on that one...

Well, if you think thumping them on the head is funny, you'll LOVE this:

I am going to try and potty train them.

When I start to see them poo I rush them to the toilet and hold them over it until they're done.

Then they get praised by words, love hugs and a treat that they love ( it's called "Natural Zone Bites for Tortoises".

The problem, of course, is that I don't know how to keep them from waiting to poo until I get home but I'm working on that.

I am really fascinated by animal behavior and believe they are capable of so much more than we give them credit for.

I have TONS of examples of real life experiences in this area but since I'm new at Tortoises most involve dogs.

However, I believe Camelot and I communicate darn well.

Bogie will be the problem child and it's going to take a while to build trust from that horrid place he was raised in.

But one thing he has made me certain of already:

I knew it would be several years before I knew if Camelot was a girl or a boy and Bogie's actions have indeed convinced me that at least HE know's Camelot is male.

I'm going to have to thump him on the head for those times he's mean to Camelot, too.

Ironically after all the head-thumping yesterday, Bogie was all over me today and very affectionate. I just hope he's not setting me up for a trap!

 

[blafiriravt]

I just found out this week that making your own "spring mix" is way cheaper per pound than buying pre-made mixes. I have more Coops than I can shake a stick at here in VT. They carry dandelion greens, clover, red and green oak, mustard greens, red and green romaine, chard, spinach, beet greens, arugula, and the list goes on and on. All this ALL YEAR ROUND. I'm not sure if i'm the only "lucky" one here who has a coop, or other organic produce vendors on the forum, but I seem to be reading an awful lot about not being able to find the regular for tort grazings. Another really cool idea I found here in the forum threads was someone cut schedule 40 PVC pipe down to 2-4" lengths, and planted the dandelion/local greens in those. The idea behind it was to prevent the tort from digging up the plant and ruining the roots while being able to grow your own goodies in the enclosure year round. A length of that PVC pipe is about 10 feet long, so you can get a ton of barriers out of it.

 

[Kristina]

I do the same thing. I can either buy actual spring mix for $5.99 a lb, or the components of spring mix for $1-1.69 a lb. Since I go through 4lbs of greens a day during the winter months... Well, you can pretty much bank on which way I choose to do it