Wild Caught or Captive Bred from Tortoise Town?

[barnratt]

Hi all new Russian mom here.

Just got my new Russian juvenile yesterday from Tortoise Town. According to their website, I would receive one that was between 18 to 24 months. I read the reviews online and they were all mostly good so I went ahead and ordered him. (That was unfortunately before I thought to check here ?) I really wanted to get a captive bred and not support the trade of importing wild caught animals. He seems very healthy to me. Eating, basking, and burrowing. Not super active but I know that he is going to need some time to settle in. My main question is this though... I measured him and he is 4.5 inches.. after reading on this thread it seems that he is older, possibly over 5 years old? I guess there is no real way of knowing for sure but would love to hear some of your opinions. Do you guys think that I got a wild caught after all? Even though Tortoise Town is supposedly all captive bred?

Thank you all in advance!!

 

[method89]

Pictures would help, but that size sounds bigger than 2 years old. Doesn't mean he's not CB though.

Where on LI? I'm in Malverne

 

[barnratt]

Pictures would help, but that size sounds bigger than 2 years old. Doesn't mean he's not CB though.

Where on LI? I'm in Malverne

Here are some pictures. I'm in Setauket. Near SBU

 

[zovick]

Here are some pictures. I'm in Setauket. Near SBU

Looks a good bit older than 2 years of age to me on first glance. Also doesn't look CB to me, either. Can you post a photo of the plastron so we can see how mature the tortoise appears to be? Showing the tail area would be good.

 

[barnratt]

Looks a good bit older than 2 years of age to me. Also doesn't look CB to me, either.

How can you tell by looking at him? How do CBs and WC look different?

 

[method89]

Shell damage/scuffs and what not..... He's still a pretty good looking russian though

 

[barnratt]

Looks a good bit older than 2 years of age to me on first glance. Also doesn't look CB to me, either. Can you post a photo of the plastron so we can see how mature the tortoise appears to be? Showing the tail area would be good.

That's what I was afraid of. Here are some more pictures. I couldn't get a good photo of his tail. He has it tucked really well and he's strong! lol

 

[zovick]

How can you tell by looking at him? How do CBs and WC look different?

WC tortoises usually have more wear and tear on their shells than CB ones. It is a bit hard for me to tell from the pictures of your tortoise whether it is CB or WC. The growth rings are still fairly well defined, so maybe it is CB. It's tough call. The seams on either side of the central scutes look older to me which made me think WC at first. Also many of the CB ones, though not all, are pyramided. Yours isn't, which could indicate it was CB and raised very well or it may possibly indicate WC.

Plastron photos might help for age determination. Can you tell the sex? Obviously if it is too young to sex, it is younger and if it can be readily sexed visually, it is older.

On another note, I believe that there is a tortoise farm operation somewhere in Europe which breeds these guys for export. Maybe it came from there. Don't know if you would still call it CB if it was farmed or not. I guess that is a matter of one's interpretation of the wording.

 

[barnratt]

I know it's not the end of the world if he is WC and that many people have them with success. I just really would have preferred to have a CB tort

 

[barnratt]

WC tortoises usually have more wear and tear on their shells than CB ones. It is a bit hard for me to tell from the pictures of your tortoise whether it is CB or WC. The growth rings are still fairly well defined, so maybe it is CB. It's tough call. The seams on either side of the central scutes look older to me which made me think WC at first. Also many of the CB ones, though not all, are pyramided. Yours isn't, which could indicate it was CB and raised very well or it may possibly indicate WC.

Plastron photos might help for age determination. Can you tell the sex? Obviously if it is too young to sex, it is younger and if it can be readily sexed visually, it is older.

On another note, I believe that there is a tortoise farm operation somewhere in Europe which breeds these guys for export. Maybe it came from there. Don't know if you would still call it CB if it was farmed or not. I guess that is a matter of one's interpretation of the wording.

Thank you I just posted some more pictures but had a hard time with his tail by myself.. I pretty sure it's a he..

 

[zovick]

That's what I was afraid of. Here are some more pictures. I couldn't get a good photo of his tail. He has it tucked really well and he's strong! lol

Plastron looks as though the tortoise is older than 2 years. Also it still looks more WC than CB to me. However, that is just one person's opinion (though I have kept and bred tortoises since 1957 or 58).

 

[MichaelL]

Yeah that's a wild caught, and over 5 years old. Nice tortoise.

 

[zovick]

Yeah that's a wild caught, and over 5 years old. Nice tortoise.

Hey Michael,
I agree with your assessment. Do you think it is a male?
BZ

 

[MichaelL]

Hey Michael,
I agree with your assessment. Do you think it is a male?
BZ

Hey, yeah I do think it is male. It's tail is small for a male but still not as small as a females.

 

[barnratt]

Thank you everyone for all your help. I had a feeling that this was going to be the case. I am happy that he seems to be healthy though. Going to bring him to an exotic vet and have him checked for parasites. I'm also going to call Tortoise Town tomorrow and see what they say.

 

[Tom]

My educated guess based in the pics and the reputation of the seller is that you've got a WC animal. Its not cost effective to raise them to 4.5 inches in captivity and then sell them for a low price. It takes years to get them to that size. It is definitely older than 24 months. I'd guess at least 8 or 9 years old.

Live and learn.

Here is the correct and current care info:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Once I read Tortoise Town I didn't even need to see the pictures to know you've got a wild caught animal.

 

[Jessica Yue]

My educated guess based in the pics and the reputation of the seller is that you've got a WC animal. Its not cost effective to raise them to 4.5 inches in captivity and then sell them for a low price. It takes years to get them to that size. It is definitely older than 24 months. I'd guess at least 8 or 9 years old.

Live and learn.

Here is the correct and current care info:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

How can they get wild caught Russian? I don’t think there is any wild Russian in the USA. Do they catch them in Central Asia and import them into USA? The transportation also cost a lot. Also, will USA custom allow them to import Russian tortoises?

 

[barnratt]

My educated guess based in the pics and the reputation of the seller is that you've got a WC animal. Its not cost effective to raise them to 4.5 inches in captivity and then sell them for a low price. It takes years to get them to that size. It is definitely older than 24 months. I'd guess at least 8 or 9 years old.

Live and learn.

Here is the correct and current care info:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for that I appreciate it. I feel so dumb falling into their trap. Wish I came here first before purchasing. I wonder how they get away with selling "CB" Russians that aren’t really CB?? But again I’m happy that he is looking healthy, just wish I got what I paid for. Like you said.. Live and Learn ??‍♀️

 

[barnratt]

How can they get wild caught Russian? I don’t think there is any wild Russian in the USA. Do they catch them in Central Asia and import them into USA? The transportation also cost a lot. Also, will USA custom allow them to import Russian tortoises?

That is exactly what they do. Most Russians in the US are imported. They just have to be a certain size.. I believe a minimum of 4in but could be wrong on that. Someone correct me if I am.