"Wild" Sulcata Babies Hatched in Southern CA!!!

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RV's mom

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Wow Tom! I've been away for a while, and come back to find this marvelous thread! Congrats ~ I hope you find the answer to the Great Baby Tort Mystery!

RV sends her regards

teri
 

Katherine

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RE: "Wild" Sulcata Babies Hatched in Southern CA!!!

Very cool. Nothing beats waking in your yard and finding baby tortoises you weren't expecting :) You mentioned you found some on either side of a fence, this has happened to me as well when the babies chose to burrow down at or around the fence line. I do not know what your fence boundary is like but I dig up hatchlings under 4" of earth frequently (and I imagine they are capable of going much farther down) so if your fence is not set into the ground substantially (mine is not) they could have hatched anywhere and just breached the enclosure. I am curious because I know you generally like to rear them in indoor enclosures with outdoor time, if you will allow these 'wild' tortoises to stay 'wild'? I reckon some will evade you and stay wild for a while longer but if these tortoises you found are in good condition, why bring them in? Congratulations on your new hatchlings and the exciting way you came about them!


And I chose this moment to realize this thread was started in SEPTEMBER hahaha. That's what I get for taking a break from the forum. I am sure you have solved the great tortoise mystery by now and know you are 3 months into your care regimen if you even still have these babies, making 99% of my original post obsolete. Sorry!
 

Tom

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Our temps are simply not as warm as your Katherine. Even in summer our night temps get down into the low 60s. I think this is too cold for babies, especially in a damp irrigated enclosure. We get hot days, but still have cold nights here. As soon as fall really started setting in we had night temps in the 30's pretty early on.

Never did find where they came from. No clue.

I still have three of them they are growing much slower than any of my others. This is an observation that I have shared with Jacqui, Kristina Neal, Dean and others. When a baby tortoise spends all day outside, they grow very slowly for some reason. This is also not a fair comparison because these guys have never seen any Mazuri or any other "artificial" food, like my indoor ones. They are nearing 100 grams at 3 months old, and they eat a ton. They eat far more than any of my "indoor" closed chamber babies, yet they grow much slower. Odd. I don't have an explanation for this phenomenon yet, but a few theories. Their growth lines are much more pronounced, but I would not say they are pyramiding yet. The "experiment" is pretty much over since it is so cool now. We had a week of rain and they spend most days inside now. I might get them out for a few hours on a warm day, but they are inside more than out for the winter.
 

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Thats pretty cool Tom, looks like a lot of good things are happening at your place....
 

Anthony P

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I realize we're all late here now, but congrats! That's the way C. sulcata should be raised. So amazing. Any idea what you will do with the hatchlings now?
 

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Anthony P said:
I realize we're all late here now, but congrats! That's the way C. sulcata should be raised. So amazing. Any idea what you will do with the hatchlings now?


I'm not so sure I agree. At least not in my climate. These ones outside are not growing as smooth. They are certainly not bad, but not as good as my closed chamber or even open topped enclosure babies. Mind you they are still sleeping inside in a closed chamber with a humid hide, but for their first couple of months they were outside all day every day. They are also growing at about a third the rate of my indoor ones, even though they are eating about 30-50% more on average. I've stated before, but should clarify: I don't care what the growth rate is. I'm not trying to grow them fast OR slow. I don't advocate either. I just want to grow them HEALTHY. I only mention growth rates as it is very noteworthy to me and other keepers have seen a similar phenomenon despite similar temps and conditions.

What will I do with them: I don't know. I'm enjoying them and its sort of a fun learning process for me. I would imagine I will reach a point where I tire of caring for so many tortoises and realize I don't need 50 sulcatas and sell them off. This is the pattern I typically follow. In the mean time, I am observing their behavior, growth and smoothness and learning what I can from them.
 

Anthony P

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Surely the optimum situation would be in their native habitat. What I meant by my comment was that you are very lucky to have the means to enjoy one of the world's amazing amimals in an environment where they can live happily enough to grow and breed without artificial incubation. There are so many of us who have dreams of keeping a large tortoises clan in outdoor habitats.

Sulcatas are such a great illustration of the positive impact captive breeding can have on wild populations. No need to import any more when people like yourself are having success breeding them in the Southern US. Unfortunately, that has meant the suffering of alot of tortoises who have been improperly raised by those who are not fit to raise them.

And while it's a shame that we can't ship Centrochelys sulcata back to Africa, I was just reading an article about them posibly being released in Hawaii to help keep invasive plants at bay and also help fill the niche left by plant eating birds that went extinct centuries ago. I'm pulling this from my memory here, so forgive any mixups, but the story was really exciting. It was in "The Tortoise," the Turtle Conservancy's annual book.

My point is, the sulcata is an amazing animal that wears so many hats. Endangered in the wild, over-represented here in the pet trade, and now, since they can't be sent back, maybe they have even bigger purposes!

I just thought it was interesting to read that article and to see your exciting story about a truely magnificant animal breeding in your yard. I wish more of the maltreated C. sulcata up here in the Northeast were down there with you! Smooth/rapid growth or otherwise. They're just not meant for those cold areas where so many of them have popped up.

Hope this rambling makes sense.

Great thread Tom! Thanks
 

Anthony P

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Ok, so now I know that you definately know about the article in "The Tortoise" that I was talking about, since you started a thread abou the book in another forum on here! Haha. Just noticed it, so I thought I'd mention that.
 

Tom

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Now I getcha'. We are on the same page. Yes it does give me great joy to sit and watch my herd grazing on weeds and digging burrows and marching all over the place. I wish I didn't have to work so I could just sit and watch them all day...
 

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RE: "Wild" Sulcata Babies Hatched in Southern CA!!!

Tom said:
I wish I didn't have to work so I could just sit and watch them all day...
:) Don't we all? Someday...
 

Tom

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Not yet. Been working everyday and it's been cold and rainy. The weeds are doing great though!
 

Tom

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Everything is turning green man. Its mostly sprouts right now. Give it a couple more weeks. But you are still welcome to come by anytime. :)
 

DeanS

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I don't really care about the weeds...I just wanna see the menagerie! I just can't get enough of those Sudans...and the WILD BUNCH...and, and...you get the point!
 

CourtneyAndCarl

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Green? What is this "green" you speak of? *sigh* I wish we could have some green around here.... anyone want to foster a poor college student in California or Florida??? :p
 

Tom

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CourtneyAndCarl said:
Green? What is this "green" you speak of? *sigh* I wish we could have some green around here.... anyone want to foster a poor college student in California or Florida??? :p

Yeah, that's what we say here from about May until December. The rains usually come in late Novemeber or December and the everything gets lush and green. Weeds and grass everywhere. I don't need to feed my outdoor tortoises at all during this time. I sometimes offer food, but they usually just walk right past it as they move from one weedy area to another, grazing. If we just get some rains every other week or so, the weeds will last until late May. If not, I have to run the sprinklers.
 
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