Hi, i have a leo who has been doing great. I recently picked him up and his shell is soft on the bottom. I soak him almost every other day. Sometimes I may go two days before soaking him. He gets his cal supplement with every soak. He will not bask. Ive been thinking about taking all of his hiding places out of his cage. He's only 4 months old. i dont want to put any more stress on him. what do you guys think. His cage on the hot end is 90-95 and 80-85 on the cool end. Any help is appreciated!!!!!
wont bask
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Please tell us a little more. Like what kind of basking light, with the higher temps, what is your humidity? What are you feeding, and anything else you can tell us.
On the hot side I have a 100 watt powersun and the cool side I use a 100 watt uva basking bulb. temps in daytime run 95 on hot side and 85-80 on cool side. Huidity is kept at 70%. they eatcactus, herb blend from store, cat grass, hibiscus...... I really mix it up on them. they get there soak with the multi-vita and cal almost every other day. Sometimes I may go 2 days and the soak. I do have the cage right next to a window that gets a ton of light. Sometimes I will turn off one light because the cage will get hot with the sunlight coming in. I thought this would be good for them.
Things do sound very good. Wait for someone with more experience. I don't know what to tell you. If someone doesn't come on soon, you can send a pm to TOM. Good luck, I hope all is okay.
What is the temp directly under the hottest part of the basking lamp?
You said he gets calcium with his soak. Do you mean you put the calcium in the soaking water?
Does he ever go outside in the direct sunshine?
What is the lowest temp in there at night?
How was he housed and cared for before you got him?
When you say the shell is soft, do mean soft like a plastic butter tub with some give to it, or soft like mushy, like the butter in the tub?
You said he gets calcium with his soak. Do you mean you put the calcium in the soaking water?
Does he ever go outside in the direct sunshine?
What is the lowest temp in there at night?
How was he housed and cared for before you got him?
When you say the shell is soft, do mean soft like a plastic butter tub with some give to it, or soft like mushy, like the butter in the tub?
The temp right underneath in 96.6.
Yes I put multi vitamin and calcium w/D3 in his soak.
I live in Missouri so he can't go out here.
I recieved him from Richard Fifes farm.
Well I try not to pick him up much but I do check him periodically. His shell is almost mushy soft. Never before has it been this soft. Its scarey soft!!!!
Yes I put multi vitamin and calcium w/D3 in his soak.
I live in Missouri so he can't go out here.
I recieved him from Richard Fifes farm.
Well I try not to pick him up much but I do check him periodically. His shell is almost mushy soft. Never before has it been this soft. Its scarey soft!!!!
What you are describing sounds like either an acute calcium deficiency or improper care as a hatchling which damages their internal organs beyond repair even though they can live quite a while.
Your case is perplexing to me though. Your diet sounds good and you are using a MVB, plus good temps, so calcium deficiency, or lack of UV seems an unlikely cause to me. Which leaves bad hatchling care as the most likely other possible cause. Knowing Richard Fife, I really doubt this is the case, but he did admit to me some lack of individual care when I bought some babies from him a while back. Still, his normal routine should not only have not caused this, but actually helped to prevent it... I just don't know...
A couple of things:
Sunshine through a window has no usable UV. As long as you are not over heating the enclosure, there is no harm in it, but also no benefit.
Calcium and vitamins in the soak could actually taste bad and cause them to not want to drink. Calcium and vitamin supplements should be given in small amounts and mixed in with the food.
How old is your MVB (Powersun)?
What substrate are you using?
Has he ever seen the sun? Like before winter set in?
Have you ever seen him drink in the soak?
Your case is perplexing to me though. Your diet sounds good and you are using a MVB, plus good temps, so calcium deficiency, or lack of UV seems an unlikely cause to me. Which leaves bad hatchling care as the most likely other possible cause. Knowing Richard Fife, I really doubt this is the case, but he did admit to me some lack of individual care when I bought some babies from him a while back. Still, his normal routine should not only have not caused this, but actually helped to prevent it... I just don't know...
A couple of things:
Sunshine through a window has no usable UV. As long as you are not over heating the enclosure, there is no harm in it, but also no benefit.
Calcium and vitamins in the soak could actually taste bad and cause them to not want to drink. Calcium and vitamin supplements should be given in small amounts and mixed in with the food.
How old is your MVB (Powersun)?
What substrate are you using?
Has he ever seen the sun? Like before winter set in?
Have you ever seen him drink in the soak?
Some of us occasionally put a (very) small bowl of cal powder in the enclosure. My Greeks ignore it most times but occasionally treat it like crack!! Just a suggestion.
My bulb is new.
I use rabbit pellets and sphagum moss on wet side.
He has been outside in the summer.
He drinks a ton of water. I have thought y he's taking so much water. The other leo doesnt take as much as he does.
He is still eating moving has slowed down. I think mayb Im getting it to hot with the sun coming thru the window. I have turned off the bulbs occasionally thinking the sunlight would give them adequate nutrion. Im guessing thats my problem. Except the other leo is doing great and no softness at all. He has been very healthy so I dont know what else it could be.
Do you think it would stress him out if I took out all the hiding places in the cage. I thought this would make him bask. Im gonna close the curtains and just use my light sources for heat and uvb.
I use rabbit pellets and sphagum moss on wet side.
He has been outside in the summer.
He drinks a ton of water. I have thought y he's taking so much water. The other leo doesnt take as much as he does.
He is still eating moving has slowed down. I think mayb Im getting it to hot with the sun coming thru the window. I have turned off the bulbs occasionally thinking the sunlight would give them adequate nutrion. Im guessing thats my problem. Except the other leo is doing great and no softness at all. He has been very healthy so I dont know what else it could be.
Do you think it would stress him out if I took out all the hiding places in the cage. I thought this would make him bask. Im gonna close the curtains and just use my light sources for heat and uvb.
nothing to do with softmess, but Id use something different then rabbit pellets. they mold to easliy and its not easy for babies to walk on.
hope your little one does ok.
hope your little one does ok.
I would not remove the hiding places or shut the curtains, but do watch the temps.
Do the two tortoises live together? Being in a pair can cause quite a lot of stress. This usually is not a big deal with leopards, but it MIGHT be a factor. How large is the enclosure?
Three things are needed for a tortoise to process dietary calcium and form a good hard shell.
1. Calcium, either in the food or as a supplement. You seem to have this covered. It is possible that he is not getting any in the soaking water. He should be eating it. However, your diet is good, and he should be getting enough that way.
2. UV. Your Powersun MVB should have this covered. Your summer sunning sessions should have helped to.
3. Healthy internal organs. If your tortoise experienced chronic dehydration as a hatchling, before you even got it, these symptoms are exactly what you would see. This does not seem likely, given the source.
Ask Richard how often this baby was soaked, before you got it. See if he can offer any insight.
Does your tortoise have a water bowl? How are you measuring humidity? 70% sounds really high if half your enclosure is dry rabbit pellets.
Do the two tortoises live together? Being in a pair can cause quite a lot of stress. This usually is not a big deal with leopards, but it MIGHT be a factor. How large is the enclosure?
Three things are needed for a tortoise to process dietary calcium and form a good hard shell.
1. Calcium, either in the food or as a supplement. You seem to have this covered. It is possible that he is not getting any in the soaking water. He should be eating it. However, your diet is good, and he should be getting enough that way.
2. UV. Your Powersun MVB should have this covered. Your summer sunning sessions should have helped to.
3. Healthy internal organs. If your tortoise experienced chronic dehydration as a hatchling, before you even got it, these symptoms are exactly what you would see. This does not seem likely, given the source.
Ask Richard how often this baby was soaked, before you got it. See if he can offer any insight.
Does your tortoise have a water bowl? How are you measuring humidity? 70% sounds really high if half your enclosure is dry rabbit pellets.
Hi Miss28. I agree with all of the above. But, since your situation sounds critical at this point you should take your tortoise to an exotics vet and have him examined. Take with you a very fresh fecal sample. Let us know what you find out please, so we can all learn from your experience. Best of luck to you and your tort.
I would agree that a vet visit might be in order if you are noticing the tortoise has become softer. You seem to have everything covered, I would recommend just a couple of things:
Move the tank away from the window, you will have a much easier time controlling and maintaining desired temperatures in your enclosure.
Don't throw out the humid hide. Your temperatures are on the warm side, I wouldn't imagine you would see the tortoises basking very much.
Do you only use the calcium with D3? I would recommend using a calcium supplement without D3. You're tortoise should be getting enough D3 from the MVB, but you could still throw some of that on their food every now and then, just not every time you supplement. Too much D3 can be as bad as not enough.
Move the tank away from the window, you will have a much easier time controlling and maintaining desired temperatures in your enclosure.
Don't throw out the humid hide. Your temperatures are on the warm side, I wouldn't imagine you would see the tortoises basking very much.
Do you only use the calcium with D3? I would recommend using a calcium supplement without D3. You're tortoise should be getting enough D3 from the MVB, but you could still throw some of that on their food every now and then, just not every time you supplement. Too much D3 can be as bad as not enough.
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