Worms as a cause of URI - I hope this helps a few folks!

biochemnerd808

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I am hoping this experience might help others. Having a captive-bred, isolation-kept tortoise baby does not necessarily eliminate the possibility of worms (especially if the tortoise is kept outdoors).

One of my captive-bred Marginated juveniles recently came down with a URI. I noticed she (sex not confirmed - just for simplicity sake!) was blowing bubbles out of her nose, and right away separated her from the others, and placed her into a 'hospital' bin with elevated temperatures and humidity. Now mind you, these guys have been healthy as heck, with smooth growth, and have never had any health issues. They were bred by a reputable breeder, have eaten healthy food, have always had good temperatures, a hot humid hide, good UVB indoors, and they spent all Summer outdoors, without issue.
I was at a bit of a loss how ONE of the Margies would develop a URI, especially with the nice warm temps they have in their closed-chamber 2ft x 8ft enclosure. After not seeing any improvement in 2 days of hospital-tank, I made an appointment with our excellent reptile vet. This was a good thing, because by that evening, Bubbles was mouth breathing and gullar puffing - both signs of respiratory distress. Interestingly, she continued to eat and self-soak (in addition to my additional soaks!)
The vet examined her, and said she is one of the healthiest grown captive bred tortoises she has ever seen. She definitely heard a rumble, but because Bubbles is only 300g, it was hard to tell if it was in her throat or in her lungs. To be on the safe side (because she is so small), she prescribed a month of Ceftadazime, to be given by injection every 3 days. We have known this our vet for years, and trust her judgement. She is very conservative when it comes to using antibiotics - she likes to try other things first. So when she prescribed antibiotics, I knew she was taking this seriously.
Because Bubbles is captive-bred, and has never been in contact with any other species or outside tortoises, the vet didn't test for anything else.
Well, after about a week in the hospital tank, I found a solitary, wriggling pin-worm in one of Bubbles poops when doing daily clean-up. Uh-oh! I have dealt with worms before in adult Russian rescue/rehab tortoises... but did NOT expect to see this in a captive-bred juvenile. Of course, she did spend all Summer outside, and she does eat weeds every day... so she could have picked up worms from bird poop or something on the plants she ate.
I treated Bubbles with Panacur (dosed according to her weight), and she got her second dose today (11 days after the first dose). She has been steadily pooping out large amounts of dead worms. To be on the safe side, I have removed the substrate from the enclosure that has the other 3 Margie babies, and have dosed them with Panacur as well - chances are, they must be affected as well.

Worm infestation is known to affect the tortoise's immune system. Some are more susceptible to this than others. A weakened tortoise is more likely to get URIs, and my guess is that this is what happened with Bubbles. She is doing GREAT - the injections continue for another few doses, and she is active and continues to eat (she seems not to have gotten the memo that she is ill). She still has a bit of clear bubbles every few days, but there is no more gullar puffing or mouth breathing. She'll stay in isolation with elevated temps until this is fully resolved.

Anyway. The take-home lesson here is: if your tortoise has a symptom with an unexplained cause, don't discount worms, just because your tort comes from a great source, has a great set-up, healthy food, etc... and don't be afraid to ask your vet or other experienced tortoise keepers for help and advice. :)
 

Dizisdalife

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Thanks. Katie. That is a good write up and solid advice. I had a similar experience with a baby sulcata. Since then I have a fecal exam done every 12-18 months as a precaution.
 

biochemnerd808

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UPDATE: Bubbles is doing much better. She is still getting antibiotic injections every 3 days, but there are no more signs of respiratory distress. Her nose is dry for several days, and then a tiny bit moist, then dry again. She has also gained weight - she was 300g on Dec. 6 and now weighed in at 347g. She will stay in solitary confinement for another month or two, with eleveated temperatures, and then will move back in with the other Margies, as long as the vet gives her the all clear.
 

wellington

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Very interesting and something that should be common sense, but not really thought of. Glad you brought it to the forefront.
Also glad to hear that everything is going well.
 

mike taylor

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I had something simulator to this but thought it was normal . When I got my first red footed tortoise I seen bubbles coming from her nostrils. Took her to the vet they checked fecals found she had ghardia . From dirty water . He gave one shot of antibiotics and panacur . So now I give my torts a little panacur treatment yearly .
 
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Grammy

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This describes one of my red foot tortoises exactly. What is the dosage for panacur for adult tortoises?
 

biochemnerd808

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This describes one of my red foot tortoises exactly. What is the dosage for panacur for adult tortoises?

Hi @Grammy, it isn't generally advised to post dosage information on a public forum, because someone might miscalculate or misunderstand, resulting in an ill or dead tortoise. It's best to work with your vet to figure out the dosage - there's a good list of tortoise-friendly vets on the forum that will help you find a reliable vet. :)
 

DawnH

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Wow, how scary. I am a big fan of food grade DE. Do you think sprinkling this all over the yard/tortoise pens could help eliminate my tortoise getting worms (our outbreaks in the future from bird poop/whatever) or would it not really help much in that situation?

Glad everything is now okay with Bubbles! :tort:
 

Lovely tortoise

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Dear writer, I really want to figure out the dosage and what kind of panacur should I buy for my tortoise. Since you say it is not a good idea to talk about that on the forum, can you tell me where can i find the list that you mentioned about the kindly vet?
 

Aunt Caffy

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biochemnerd808

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Dear writer, I really want to figure out the dosage and what kind of panacur should I buy for my tortoise. Since you say it is not a good idea to talk about that on the forum, can you tell me where can i find the list that you mentioned about the kindly vet?

Yep, as @Aunt Caffy (Happy Birthday, by the way!) mentioned, the vet list is here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/forums/tortoise-vet-list.126/ - a qualified vet can help you figure out the proper dosage. :)
 
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