Worried about Echo :(

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EchoTheLeoTort

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This might be a long story but here it goes. When I first got Echo I kept him in an open enclosure. He had coco coir substrate, a hide, a cool end, hot end, basking area. But the enclosure was open and so the temps were most likely just room temp and i did spray it down but I am guessing all humidity escaped. This past month I built a closed chamber, he had coco coir substrate which stayed moist, on the bottom. Then repti bark on top to keep him dry so he wasn't sitting in wet substrate. I used a PowerSun 100w mvb bulb. The basking area was a little over 100. the Hot side was 85-90 degrees, the cool end was 83. At night I turned his bulb off but the enclosure stayed 80 degrees. He has a varied diet. He gets things like - spring mix, endive, romaine, green leaf, kale one time, and other safe tortoise greens, as well as dandelions, grass free of pesticides im growing just for him, and sometimes hibiscus. I sprinkle calcium with d3 twice a week on his food. He gets his shell sprayed 4-5 times a day, and the cage gets sprayed down to keep humidity 80%. He gets outside 3 times a week for 30 minutes, where there is grass and safe plants for him to eat, in good sunlight. He gets soaked every morning about 15-20 minutes. I've done my best to do all of Tom's care to a "t". I recently have noticed that the past 2 weeks he hasn't gone the bathroom in his soaks which he usually does. but I do find little poops in his cage so I waved it off. I spent the past couple weeks preparing to get a ball python so I didn't have him out of his cage much but the care was all still the same. I have kept an eye on him during that time and his activity level has dropped. Everytime I check on him he is sleeping, he used to roam his cage a lot. I feed him every day still, and I see that he gets in there and eats several times a day. He basks a lot under his heat lamp. But today I had extra time so I decided to take him out to interact with him and his shell is different. His plastron has become even more flexible, and now parts of the carapace are easily pushed in as well. It doesn't have a soft squishy texture but it never used to do that before. The most parts are the bottom scutes that are where the carapace joins the plastron, and then the row of scutes above those. It really gave me a bad feeling. I sadly can say I have not weighed Echo since I got him, but however i have notice that since March 27th when I got him he has barely gotten any new growth. A little black started to suddenly appear as soon as he got under his mvb bulb, so i figured because of previously not getting uvb from april - part of may he was not growing. But now that his shell is getting weaker I really don't know what to do. When I took him out tonight he didn't open his eyes until i put water on them, and when i did he walked around for a few minutes then curled up and went back to sleep. None of his breathing is clicky, his eyes are clear when they are open, when their closed they aren't puffy, theres no drainage from his nose, so i don't think he has a respiratory infection. I seriously don't know what is wrong. His temps are where they should be, his humidity is right, he has a good diet, he gets calcium, he eats a good amount, he got exercise, he drinks well. I don't know how to help him cause I honestly Don't know whats wrong. Any help? I'm at my wits end :(
 

Millerlite

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He still has an appetite? Sorry what type of tort as well? Also it's hard to tell through description if the shells to soft but if you noticed it It probably is. Mine can be lazy from time to time as long as appetites good I don't worry much. I would make sure he stays hydrated with soaks which your doing. Of he stops eating that's not good so keep the appetite up. Also any signs of runny nose or sticky eyes or watery eyes?
 

Kameo37

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I'm definitely no expert, but the only thing I see is that you are using calcium with d3. It's not necessary to use d3 if they are getting natural sunlight, which you said yours is. That being said, I don't know what too much d3 could do or how it might show up.
Hope somebody on here with more experience can help Echo!

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EchoTheLeoTort

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He's a leopard hatchling. His shell was never that easily pushed in before but all it takes is a little pressure and it bends in. As i said no runny nose or watery eyes. His eyes aren't sticky or puffy but he keeps them closed. Which is why i ruled out a RI. When I got him he was about the size of a golfball, literally. But he has grown and he is currently between 2 and 2.25 inches. I've had him almost 3 months now and he has gotten barely any growth. I know they grow slow but you'd think with all the food and everything he'd grow a little.
 

Sh3wulf

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From what I have heard and read here you should switch to a calcium with no D3 and only give the D3 supplemented calcium once a week. Too much of it causes problems for their little kidneys.

With regards to the soft shell, I'm not too sure if this is unique to my tort or not, but Benny seems to get quite pliable when he has a big growth spurt and I notice he sleeps a lot when he's doing this. I think it's cause he's still just a baby and doing some massive growing.

Having read so many of your threads on Echo, I know he's a super loved little guy getting the best care, so I hope he's pulling a Benny on you and about to show you some serious colours and growth rings :)

Keep us posted and best of luck.
 

pfara

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Maybe a trip to the vet for a fecal sample is needed? If he's eating fine but not growing, maybe he has worms. Your setup is practically perfect so worms are the only thing I can think of. I'm so sorry you and Echo are going through this. Good luck & /hugs.
 

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Sorry no advice, but I just wanted to say best wishes to you two. I love your threads, Echo is so sweet.


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Vickie

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Will be thinking of you and Eco....such a cute little guy. Praying all turns out ok.
 

mike taylor

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Man that sucks I would pm Tom . Sorry your Echo is sick hopefully it's normal for this to ne happening.

Mike
 

mike taylor

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How's echo doing? Hope all is well.

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EchoTheLeoTort

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mike taylor said:
How's echo doing? Hope all is well.

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Hey Mike, I P.M'd Tom today and he said it's a classic case of Hatchling Failure Syndrome and there isn't much I can do to stop whats happening or to save him. Been really sad about it all day, I wish i could help him or do something, instead I have to watch him get worse and worse until he passes away. It's a really hard thing for me. A lot of people have a lot of pets and one passing away isn't a big deal but all I have is my dog Anna, Electra my ball python, and Echo. It's a hard blow for sure. I just invested a lot of money on a closed chamber and outdoor enclosure but I'm not sure if I will get another tortoise or not at this point. :(
 

wiccan_chicken

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No not Echo! That little tort was so sweet! How can one so well loved and taken care of just fail? It boggles my mind. I am so sorry your little Echo is passing. Just comfort the little guy as well as you can, and when he passes, keep his memory in your heart. I'm so sorry.


Maybe if it isn't too late you can try and take him to the vet and have fluids done?
http://www.sulcata-station.org/hatchfail.html

Or at least if he isn't savable, put the little guy down, so he doesn't suffer too much? It hurts to see him so sick, but if he can be saved I'd be glad to see a vet who ca save him, if not, at least you could see about letting him cross the rainbow bridge without much more suffering? It's all up to you I'm just throwing out suggestions.
 

thatrebecca

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Oh I'm so sorry for you and little Echo. I love all the sweet pictures of him you share on this forum. I wish I could wave a wand and make him better. I know it doesn't help, but I'm thinking of you both.
 

abclements

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I'm so sorry to hear about echo! I loved reading your posts about how happy and awesome he is! My suggestion to you is to not give up hope yet! Keep doing what you're doing and give him the best care you can. Make a little hide in the middle of your enclosure where the temp is right in the middle between hot and cold and place him next to the hide (better to guess in the middle temp wise than too hot or too cold). Let him choose if he wants to be inside or outside the hide. Feed him just outside of the hide so he doesn't have to expend a lot of energy moving to it. I would soak him twice a day to make sure he is properly hydrated. If it is liver or kidney failure, it can sometimes be reversed by lots of fluids! I would also do baby food soaks at least for one of the soaks. Like others have said, maybe just regular calcium for now would be good. I don't know if too much D3 is toxic or not, so better safe than sorry. I'm pulling for you and echo! Don't give up hope yet!! Tortoises are extremely resilient and I think sometimes people get the wrong idea about hfs and give up hope too early! If he's still alive, there's still a chance!
 

Vickie

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EchoTheLeoTort said:
mike taylor said:
How's echo doing? Hope all is well.

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Hey Mike, I P.M'd Tom today and he said it's a classic case of Hatchling Failure Syndrome and there isn't much I can do to stop whats happening or to save him. Been really sad about it all day, I wish i could help him or do something, instead I have to watch him get worse and worse until he passes away. It's a really hard thing for me. A lot of people have a lot of pets and one passing away isn't a big deal but all I have is my dog Anna, Electra my ball python, and Echo. It's a hard blow for sure. I just invested a lot of money on a closed chamber and outdoor enclosure but I'm not sure if I will get another tortoise or not at this point. :(
That is so completely heart breaking. Like the others stated don't give up on him yet though. They might be correct but enjoy him while you can instead of dreading what they stated would happen. He might shock you and pull through. My parents raised Britney spaniels when I was growing up and ended up with a few runts the vet was unsure would make it and labeled them like your tortoise was. My mother had fed them, made sure they always got first dibs on the mom, and just basically spoiled them silly. They all ended up pulling through and lived long health lives.
Just keep in mind there is always hope until the very end. Anyway, my prayers are with you and like all the others stated it breaks all of our hearts. He is such a sweet little guy and his pictures are adorable.
 

jeffstort

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That's terrible I loved all his posts I hope he pulls through it that is just heart breaking I wish the both of you luck :=(
 

laney

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Try to stay possitive, you never know. Sounds like you are giving echo top care, they can surprise us all at times :)
Fingers crossed for the little one x
 

mike taylor

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Re: RE: Worried about Echo :(

EchoTheLeoTort said:
mike taylor said:
How's echo doing? Hope all is well.

Sent from my C771 using TortForum mobile app

Hey Mike, I P.M'd Tom today and he said it's a classic case of Hatchling Failure Syndrome and there isn't much I can do to stop whats happening or to save him. Been really sad about it all day, I wish i could help him or do something, instead I have to watch him get worse and worse until he passes away. It's a really hard thing for me. A lot of people have a lot of pets and one passing away isn't a big deal but all I have is my dog Anna, Electra my ball python, and Echo. It's a hard blow for sure. I just invested a lot of money on a closed chamber and outdoor enclosure but I'm not sure if I will get another tortoise or not at this point. :(

I'm so sorry hopefully he will pull though .

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diaboliqueturtle

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"Just when the caterpillar thought it was all over, it turned into a butterfly."
My 5 shelled kids and I are sending lotsa love and positive vibes your way.
 
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