worried about inactive tortoise (in NE) - please advise!

CrystalsFamily

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Not feeling well?

I don't know if I'm being overly concerned here, but I wonder what people think about how Crystal is doing, at the 3 week mark in our home. (There was that recent thread where someone's tortoise seemed to go from mild symptoms to demise so quickly!)

After about a week's gradual adjustment, Crystal was eating a big pile of salad every day and was quite active, especially exploring the room when out of his terrarium, and this would seem to stimulate him to be more alert and eat more. The last few days, he's less active, his appetite has gone down, and yesterday he didn't eat anything except a few pieces of zucchini (his favorite) offered at the end of the day. Today he hasn't eaten yet again, and didn't wake up on his own this morning the way he usually does, although he's up now. He's definitely not unresponsive, and I've seen nothing else I can identify as a symptom. I've soaked him yesterday and today, and he's had a drink while soaking and pooped a little.

I have two hypotheses: 1) He's not feeling well, I don't know in what way. 2) He's a little too cool. Temps in the tank have dropped a little since it warmed up a bit outside and the heat in the house isn't coming on. They've been running just below 90 (warmer directly under PowerSun) and just below 70. This morning I rigged some covers to hold in a little more heat, which is getting him a couple of degrees.

Should I be worried? Does their eating naturally go up and down, or should I expect consistency?
 

Yvonne G

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RE: Not feeling well?

I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that allowing a tortoise out of his indoor habitat to roam the floor isn't a good idea. For several reasons:

1. Once you've allowed a tortoise to know there's a world outside his confined indoor space, he's never happy to be confined in there again.

2. There are many very tiny particles on the floor that he might eat and cause an internal problem, even maybe cutting him on the inside or impaction

3. It's cold on the floor

Most people misinterpret a tortoise's activity on the floor as having fun and being curious. When really what's happening is the tortoise is afraid because he's been placed in a new world, bigger than he's used to, and he doesn't know where the safe hiding place is. So he's running around trying to find the safe place.

The best place for a tortoise is in a safe, well-planted outdoor habitat. A very large indoor habitat is second choice. Tortoises are territorial and need their own space.
 

CrystalsFamily

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RE: Not feeling well?

Yvonne,

What you say makes sense, and I will have to consider it. Especially, I have been concerned about him being cold when he's out of the tank (but could set up a space heater at those times). I might think that he would come to see the floor as part of his territory, and get to know the safe spots? Unfortunately, outdoors is not an option for us here. Even in the largest indoor habitat (and I can see us upgrading in the future), I don't see how he would get an adequate amount of exercise.

I remain a little worried, as we go into the work week, about whether he might be sick in any way. He's basically acting like he did when he first arrived and was stressed, but nothing has really changed (including the amount he has been out of the habitat). Sleeping a lot, not eating much or at all. Still seeking advice....
 

CrystalsFamily

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Getting really worried

Hi. I posted some description this morning of our tortoise's waning energy and appetite over the last few days. After all day today not eating, and hiding/sleeping, I am getting really worried. He's still responsive when I pick up the hide and peek at him. I've soaked him yesterday and today, don't think I should do it more than once/day. He's drunk and pooped. I don't think I've seen any urates for a couple days. Nothing else strange. I don't know if this is sick enough for a stressful trip to the vet. He's basically acting like he did when we first brought him home 3 weeks ago, but I don't think there have been any new stressors. Help? :|
 

Yvonne G

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RE: Not feeling well?

Have you re-checked the temperature in the habitat? Too hot plus too cold are both bad things for tortoises.
 

CrystalsFamily

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RE: Not feeling well?

Yes, thanks for the suggestion. I've been watching it all day. The cover I put on only added 2-3 degrees, so 93/73 (hotter under basking light). And up til now he's been fine with 90/70. I only suspected temp because we had lost a couple of degrees the past few days, but now I don't anymore. (Oh, and "he's drunk and pooped" means he drank water and defecated, not went on a bender. That would be funny if I weren't so worried.)
 

CrystalsFamily

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RE: Not feeling well?

Talked to a local reptile vet this morning who seemed quite knowledgeable and was generous in giving me her time on the phone. In the absence of obvious symptoms such as respiratory ones, she seemed to think it was most likely temps, especially nighttime, and suggested we try to get that up, warm soaks 2-3 times/day (instead of just 1), and maybe vary foods to see if there's anything that would entice Crystal to start eating again. She said it can take a few days for metabolism to fire back up if it's low temps, and she thought she should see him if he's not eating by the end of the week.

(BTW, it seems the two threads "not feeling well" and "getting really worried" have been combined into one and are no longer listed on the forum page -- I don't know why, but I'd like it if they were still out there for other to reply to. ???)
 

CrystalsFamily

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I'm quite worried about our Russian, Crystal, whom we've had for 3 weeks and a bit. He initially adjusted well over the course of a week but now hasn't eaten for 4 days (following 2 days of appetite going down), hides all day, and doesn't get himself up in the morning like he used to (but is responsive).

He has no obvious signs of respiratory infection and is still pooping small amounts (so not impacted). I talked to a seemingly knowledgeable tortoise vet yesterday who thought the best thing to try was to get the temps up, especially at night (had been at about 90/70, in the 60s at night but it had dipped a few degrees when it warmed up a bit outside so the heat in the house stopped coming on as much). I had already begun soaking him daily and she suggested 2-3x/day to help warm up his metabolism. She said it could take a few days for his metabolism to ramp back up but if he isn't eating by the end of the week to bring him in (which I know would be really stressful for him).

Wondering if anyone has other ideas or suggestions, and especially experience with anything similar at this time of the in cold climates (New England)?

Thanks for any advice. I'm really worried he's not going to make it! If you've known tortoises to go through something similar and bounce back, that would also be reassuring to hear.
 

Yvonne G

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So, have the warm water soaks done anything?

The most common cause for not eating is not being warm enough. A tortoise has to be able to warm up his inner core temperature to at least 80F degrees. Think about it - your body temperature is 98.6F degrees. That's almost 100F degrees. So 80f isn't very warm when you look at it that way.

Warm that tortoise up and see if it makes a difference.

Since he hasn't eaten in a few days, you can soak him in Gerber strained carrot water. Mix a half jar of baby food carrots with enough water to come up to the middle of the tortoise's sides and leave him there for about a half hour. If you place the soaking bowl back inside the habitat NEAR, but not directly under the light, it shouldn't cool down to much. Keep checking on him, but try to leave him in there for at least a half hour.

(and just a word of advice - keep adding to THIS thread instead of starting a new one each time. That way everyone can read what you've already said and what's been suggested. It's much easier on us to have one thread rather than having to go back and forth searching for your other threads about the subject)
 

CrystalsFamily

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Thanks again, Yvonne. Temps do seem to be the leading theory, and I'm definitely working on warming him up! Seems like he thinks he should hibernate! After his recent soak a few mins ago, he seems very slightly more active (but I wonder if he'll head right back into the hide as soon as I replace it), but he's still not going for any food, including his favorite, zucchini.

This morning I took a temp reading *inside* the hide, where he's been spending more and more of his time -- and was surprised to see that it was only 80 in there despite it being 90+ right next to -- so I wonder if he's had a self-reinforcing thing going. I am now keeping the hide directly under the PowerSun and getting warmer readings. There's no value to keeping the hide out of there for periods, to keep him more active, is there?

The baby food is just for nourishment? Or to stimulate appetite? Do you say not directly under the light to protect his eyes? I usually do the short soaks under the light, but they're not any longer than he typically stays under it on his own.

(I will keep adding to this thread now, but my last one seemed to have disappeared, so I was concerned I wouldn't get further input. Oh -- and I should have said vet who sees reptiles -- I doubt there are any vets out there who just see tortoises!)
 

Jacqui

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:( I got really excited when I read the topic line and it said you were from NE. Then I found out that no, your not from the great state of NE (Nebraska). :(
 

CrystalsFamily

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Ok, I read some more about the baby food soaks and I understand better why it would be a good idea (and can't hurt!). Will get some organic carrot baby food tomorrow. After third soak today, Crystal again seemed a bit more active, but not for long and not eating. I've cranked up the heat in the room some more, and figured out a better placement of the hide so it's not so much cooler in there (wish I had figured that out sooner!). Unfortunately, tomorrow he will have a long day at home alone......
 

CrystalsFamily

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He ate two bites of a piece of zucchini this morning and my heart soared! He didn't keep going, so I'm still going to go way out of my way this morning to come home and do a baby food soak before this evening. But maybe we are headed in the right direction? (The problem is, we've had to keep the whole room that he's in unreasonably warm -- going to have to come up with a better long-term solution.) He also really, really didn't want to stay in his soak this morning, even though it was plenty warm. Have to use something with higher sides for the baby food soak.


Jacqui said:
:( I got really excited when I read the topic line and it said you were from NE. Then I found out that no, your not from the great state of NE (Nebraska). :(

Jacqui,
Sorry, I realized that when I saw the subject line published. Should have put NEngl.
Cheers.
 

CrystalsFamily

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I don't know if it's coincidence, since he was already looking a tad perkier this morning, but that tortoise immediately started eating salad after the baby food soak! Is it the baby food? Is it the warmer water? Is it the longer soak? Who cares! I'm just so happy he seems to be starting to bounce back.

How long should I keep up the bf soaks?
 

CrystalsFamily

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We're running temps at about 95 and 75-80, and trying to keep it that way around the clock. Someone let me know if that may be too warm? No nibbles after this evening's bf soak, and it was only a tiny bit of salad earlier, but tomorrow is another day....
 

CrystalsFamily

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As you can see, Weds things were really looking up. Thursday he ate about half his salad, which was further improvement. But today, Friday, he did not eat again. I am a little concerned that temps ran a little too high today when no one was home. I came home around 2 to find him hanging out in the coolest corner. Temps were 95/85 (105 under basking, but he wasn't there). I hope I'm imagining it, but I think his eyes are a tad sunken, which I gather is a really bad sign. Could he really have gotten dehydrated over the course of part of one day a little too warm? When he's been having soaks 3x/day all week?

I am so disheartened. Feeling like this is too hard and I just can't manage to do right by him and shouldn't have taken this on. And that's after a lot of research and careful preparation (definitely not an impulse buy or setup!). Is it really this hard? Was he just not so healthy to begin with? Was my big mistake getting him from a pet store? And most importantly, is there anything else I should do??
 

CrystalsFamily

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Well, I don't know that anyone has any advice for me, but things are not looking good. Crystal is not moving at all, only opens his eyes when touched, and doesn't seem to drink when he's soaking anymore. And one new piece of information: when I picked him up just now for his soak, there was some yellow mucus at his tail end. Maybe the color has something to do with the carrot and squash baby food baths, but it wasn't liquid, it was thick.

I have an appointment to take him to the vet on Monday morning. But I don't feel at all optimistic.
 

Whitneyrae

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I wish I had some good advice for you, I'm still too new to this to really know what to do. I hope Crystal recovers quickly, I'm so sorry to hear he's sick :(
 

Dorrie Siu

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I got Dorrie at Petsmart and I'm trying my best too. She hasn't really eaten much in two days, but she did nibble the weeds in her playground. She hasn't eaten much of the salad I offer her. I'm thinking that it could be because she has not gone on her walk for two days. I have not taken her outside because of the rain, I only brought her out if it's 60 degrees and above.

Otherwise she has been doing well. I have her set at night temp 60 degrees, day temp 85. Basking temp 95. Humidity runs between 40 and 50. Maybe you have it too hot?


Is Crystal for sure a boy? I'm wondering if the yellow was a busted egg that is compacted and the contents came out.
 
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