Worried about my beardie and brumation.

[TechnoCheese]

So for about the past month, my beardie has been getting lethargic, and recently is starting to spend all day in his hide for periods of about 2-3days, with one day being awake but still sitting in the hide, or coming out for about an hour to bask, and then going back to sleep for 2-3 days. I am assuming that he is trying to brumate.

The problem is, he’s still accepting food(super worms, but will only take a bite or two of greens), but the last time I fed him was about a week ago because he’s been sleeping so much.

I want to start putting him into brumation, but he has not pooped since he last ate, and I need him to poop so that I can take a fecal sample to the vet to get it checked for worms.

His poop has been a bit runny lately, and I’m not sure if it’s because I need to change his diet, he has worms, or it’s a side effect of trying to go into brumation.

I feed him superworms as a main staple(I know, not the best staple with the fat, but I assumed since he’s still growing it wouldn’t be too much of a problem. Am I incorrect to assume that?) with the occasional dubia roach(trying to start a colony but my cat ate all of the males :/). For greens I usually feed spring mix without the spinach, and the occasional dandelion or two if I can find it. I usually feed some filaree too, but I haven’t had it in my yard in a few months so he hasn’t had much.

Pancake is about 18 inches long, and 429 grams (0.95 pound). Sadly, I haven’t kept track of his weight, so I don’t know if he’s losing weight.

My questions are-
- If he wants to eat, should I feed him?
- is a fecal test an absolute necessity?
- should I start putting him into brumation, or should I just let him do his own thing?
- does he look too skinny, and does he seem to be a healthy weight?
I’ll attach some pictures in the next post.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Oh, and he’s an estimated 11 months old, might be a few days younger or older.


He is currently in a 40 gallon tank, with a basking spot temp of 107 at the hottest point and about an average temp of 100 all around, and a cool side temp of 75 in the coolest part but mainly around 83. It’s usually higher, but it’s a bit cold in my house today. Substrate is eco earth and home made excavator clay. He is not impacted.

He will be moving to Curtis’s 5x2.5 closed chamber soon when Curtis moves out.

 

[Tom]

I'm no beardie expert, but I've never heard of brumating a bearded dragon. I never cooled any of mine. I cool my BTSs, but not beardies.

Are you using a calcium supplement with D3?

I'd rather see more roaches or crickets in the diet. I don't like super worms or mealworms much. Maybe for some variety once in a while, but not as staples. More variety on the greens too. Endive and escarole, grated squash, flowers, cilantro, collards, etc...

How long are your lights on daily? They do notice the shortening days outside.

 

[TechnoCheese]

I'm no beardie expert, but I've never heard of brumating a bearded dragon. I never cooled any of mine. I cool my BTSs, but not beardies.

Are you using a calcium supplement with D3?

I'd rather see more roaches or crickets in the diet. I don't like super worms or mealworms much. Maybe for some variety once in a while, but not as staples. More variety on the greens too. Endive and escarole, grated squash, flowers, cilantro, collards, etc...

How long are your lights on daily? They do notice the shortening days outside.

I’m not gonna stick him in the fridge or anything, just going to gradually make the days shorter until the lights are off all the way, and then cover his enclosure with a blanket so that it’s nice and dark for him. It’s my understanding that that’s how you’re supposed to do it? I could be completely wrong, of course.

His lights are on from about 6:20 to 8:40, so about 14 hours.

I am using calcium with D3, but I have not used it since he’s last eaten about a week ago.

Will change up the diet!

I asked the same question on the other site I moderate, and someone said to not feed him unless they’re loosing weight, and that they’ll still eat but they won’t poop. Do you know how accurate that is? Don’t want food rotting in his stomach while he brumates, so I’m planning on soaking him for a while today to see if I can get that last bit of food out.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Interesting, I didnt think Beardies brumated.... but, i did some searching.

Bearded Dragon Brumation
Brumation is a naturally occurring hibernation cycle that bearded dragons go through. Bearded dragons will go through a brumation stage in the winter or fall in response to the change in lighting or temperatures. Some bearded dragon owners will try to force or prevent brumation by manually adjusting the temperatures and lightingof their dragons cage, however it is recommended to let your bearded dragon do what comes naturally.

Each bearded dragon is different during the brumation period. Some dragons will take very long naps off and on for the entire cycle, while other dragons will sleep without waking for the entire cycle. The brumation period also varies based on the dragon. Some bearded dragons don't go through brumation at all, others will only have a brumation period for a week, and some will be in brumation for several months. // more info at the URL //

Source: http://www.thebeardeddragon.org/bearded-dragon-health.ph


So...i guess they do.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Interesting, I didnt think Beardies brumated.... but, i did some searching.

Bearded Dragon Brumation
Brumation is a naturally occurring hibernation cycle that bearded dragons go through. Bearded dragons will go through a brumation stage in the winter or fall in response to the change in lighting or temperatures. Some bearded dragon owners will try to force or prevent brumation by manually adjusting the temperatures and lightingof their dragons cage, however it is recommended to let your bearded dragon do what comes naturally.

Each bearded dragon is different during the brumation period. Some dragons will take very long naps off and on for the entire cycle, while other dragons will sleep without waking for the entire cycle. The brumation period also varies based on the dragon. Some bearded dragons don't go through brumation at all, others will only have a brumation period for a week, and some will be in brumation for several months. // more info at the URL //

Source: http://www.thebeardeddragon.org/bearded-dragon-health.ph


So...i guess they do.

Yep, read that article. The problem is, you’re supposed to not feed them for 2 weeks before they fully bromate to make sure they don’t have any food that will rot in their stomach, but I don’t know if he’s just going to nap on and off or go through a full brumation. Right now he’s just napping on and off, but that could change very quickly. I think I’m just going to not feed him until he starts losing weight, if that happens.

Man, this is confusing!

 

[Tom]

Personally, I don't see any reason to try to brumate him. I don't know why you'd want to.

If you want to anyway, here's what I do with my BTSs: I leave the lights normal, but stop feeding mid November. I soak them in warm water 3 or 4 times a week during this time. In the beginning of December, I start shortening their days and reducing temps. Usually by mid December I just shut the lights off, but leave the cage as it normally stands. They stay hidden most of the time, but occasionally come out and walk around or drink. I leave the room temp in the mid 60's. I turn the lights back on and reverse the process around mid March and start offering food in small amounts after a week or so of the lights being back on.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Personally, I don't see any reason to try to brumate him. I don't know why you'd want to.

If you want to anyway, here's what I do with my BTSs: I leave the lights normal, but stop feeding mid November. I soak them in warm water 3 or 4 times a week during this time. In the beginning of December, I start shortening their days and reducing temps. Usually by mid December I just shut the lights off, but leave the cage as it normally stands. They stay hidden most of the time, but occasionally come out and walk around or drink. I leave the room temp in the mid 60's. I turn the lights back on and reverse the process around mid March and start offering food in small amounts after a week or so of the lights being back on.

It’s not that I want to Brumate him, I’m just not sure you can really stop it from happening. I’m sure it’s possible, but it seems like it would be unnecessary and a bit stressful for the beardie.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[TechnoCheese]

I think I’m gonna go ahead and post this in a beardie forum.

 

[Tom]

It’s not that I want to Brumate him, I’m just not sure you can really stop it from happening. I’m sure it’s possible, but it seems like it would be unnecessary and a bit stressful for the beardie.

Thanks for the tips!

I've raised and kept over a dozen and never cooled or brumated any of them. Never had any problems.

Let us know what comes back form the experienced beardie keepers. I'd like to learn more about this.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Just hope the bearded dragon forum is more active than it looks. The last post was 4 hours ago, apparently.

 

[wellington]

I have never Brumated my dragons and don't the one I have now. Just give a cooler end in the enclosure and let him be. If he wants to go sleep in the cooler end he will. My bearded is still very active, eating like a pig and has had no interest in brumating since I have had him and I have had him since very tiny.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Funny thing is, he’s been sleeping on the warm side, lol. I think part of it might just be because it’s darker in that one, and since he barely fits in it, maybe it’s more cozy?

 

[Pastel Tortie]

I have zero experience with bearded dragon brumation... but from what I've read, I shouldn't have to deal with it for another year, if at all. Our first ever bearded dragon was hatched in May 2018, and we got him in August (2018).

I've been reading up on brumation in bearded dragons, and... I know this sounds flippant and irresponsible, but I've decided to basically ignore it unless the lizard tells me otherwise. Then again, I live in northern Florida, and nobody else in my household requires hibernation or brumation.

My experience last week gave me some insight. The bearded dragon got evacuated for hurricane Michael, along with the rest of the critters. I've had to temporarily relocate (evacuate) cats and a turtle before, but this was a first with a lizard. I didn't take any lighting or heating equipment with me. I did take a few digital probe thermometers and an infrared one.

The bearded dragon didn't become active until his body temperature approached 90F (then he wanted to explore). That only happened after I had been holding him for a good while.

I had taken feeder crickets, small superworms, black soldier fly larvae, red wigglers, greens, and supplements with us when we evacuated. However, I never fed him the 2.5 days we were away from home. Why not? Because he didn't poop. His digestive system was never warm enough for long enough for him to finish processing what was already there. He finally pooped after we returned home and he was back in his enclosure, warming up under his basking light for a few hours.

For the winter, right now I'm planning to maintain his daytime setup (heat and light) as is. His nighttime temperatures will drop into the high 60s, based on the ambient indoor temperature. I don't think the temperature of his basking spot will change much, if any, even on the coldest days here.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Alright, I think I might just continue on as normal and hope for the best. So far he seems to be one to just nap on and off and not fully brumate.

Thank you all for the help!

 

[Pastel Tortie]

Oh, and he’s an estimated 11 months old, might be a few days younger or older.
View attachment 254079
View attachment 254080View attachment 254081
He is currently in a 40 gallon tank, with a basking spot temp of 107 at the hottest point and about an average temp of 100 all around, and a cool side temp of 75 in the coolest part but mainly around 83. It’s usually higher, but it’s a bit cold in my house today. Substrate is eco earth and home made excavator clay. He is not impacted.

He will be moving to Curtis’s 5x2.5 closed chamber soon when Curtis moves out.

I want to hear more about the "homemade excavator clay" stuff. Our beardie (14.5 inches long) is also in a 40B tank. Currently we're using paper towels as substrate. Is it a challenge cleaning up the beardie poop with the stuff you're using?

 

[TechnoCheese]

I want to hear more about the "homemade excavator clay" stuff. Our beardie (14.5 inches long) is also in a 40B tank. Currently we're using paper towels as substrate. Is it a challenge cleaning up the beardie poop with the stuff you're using?

Yes, it is very much a challenge, lol. It is also almost impossible to get it off the glass.

I started with a mixture of 50% organic, unscented clay cat litter, and 50% playsand. Then, I added water until it was mush that I could mold into balls.

Then, I gradually added more sand and more cat litter as I saw fit. This is where I messed up. I would definitely recommend using more sand than cat littler, because that makes it a bit easier to dig through and clean once dry, but it might make it a bit more crumbly. I tried to make it more sand, but I was scared it wouldn’t dry right and I wasn’t sure about the texture, but I am positive that it would have been fine.

You might even try using eco earth or colored sand instead or playsand, so that you can try and get different colors.

I’m pretty sure having more sand would fix the first two problems

 

[TechnoCheese]

I want to hear more about the "homemade excavator clay" stuff. Our beardie (14.5 inches long) is also in a 40B tank. Currently we're using paper towels as substrate. Is it a challenge cleaning up the beardie poop with the stuff you're using?

Here are some progress pics

 

[Pastel Tortie]

I started with a mixture of 50% organic, unscented clay cat litter, and 50% playsand. Then, I added water until it was mush that I could mold into balls.

Then, I gradually added more sand and more cat litter as I saw fit. This is where I messed up. I would definitely recommend using more sand than cat littler, because that makes it a bit easier to dig through and clean once dry, but it might make it a bit more crumbly. I tried to make it more sand, but I was scared it wouldn’t dry right and I wasn’t sure about the texture, but I am positive that it would have been fine.

You might even try using eco earth or colored sand instead or playsand, so that you can try and get different colors.

I’m pretty sure having more sand would fix the first two problems

Wow, that's incredible! Thanks for sharing! It wouldn't have occurred to me to use kitty litter. How does it hold up with moisture? Is it malleable if you wet it again?

 

[TechnoCheese]

Oh, and don’t be stupid like me and remove whatever container you’re using to hold up tunnels before it dries. My little tunnel collapsed after, lol. That’s why it looks different.