Worried my tortoise isn’t eating enough of the stuff with the vitamin powder on it.

[Shellythetort]

So I have had my beautiful little Mediterranean spur thighed tortoise now for about a month. He’s 7 months old. I have noticed he doesn’t seem to be eating much of the food I put out for him, and have tried fresh greens, food pellets (same as the breeders) dandelions and plantain. He seems to enjoy a wide range of food obviously not all at once but I’m worried he’s not getting enough of his vitamin powder he seems to avoid food if it’s on there.
Am I putting too much powder on the food, I really try to be very careful with the amount I sprinkle on. I just don’t want him to become malnourished. Please help

 

[Cherryshell]

Did you use a filter for that picture or are you using a tinted color light? If so that may be part of the issue. The more experienced people on here will ask to see pictures of the full enclosures and what your temps/humidity levels are so be sure to include that info as well.

 

[Shellythetort]

No it’s just my camera on my phone isn’t great, do you have any advice on the situation?

 

[Shellythetort]

Not sure if maybe I’m just being a little over protective? Maybe I’m expecting him to eat more than he actually does so I’m scared he’s not eating enough, but actually maybe he’s doing fine?

 

[Cherryshell]

No it’s just my camera on my phone isn’t great, do you have any advice on the situation?

Not sure if maybe I’m just being a little over protective? Maybe I’m expecting him to eat more than he actually does so I’m scared he’s not eating enough, but actually maybe he’s doing fine?

Knowing what the temps and humidity are in the enclosure to give some hints as to why he isn't eating as much. If the tort isn't warm enough then he can't digest his food properly. Well what some do is put a cuttlefish bone for calcium in the enclosures, that gives the tort the ability to nibble on it at will. From what I've read on here and other sources that sprinkling is perfectly fine but do be careful to not add to much of the vitamins as it can be just as harmful. Definitely check out the supplement section of the caresheet here: The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise | Tortoise Forum

From the picture though your Tort looks cute!

 

[Shellythetort]

Knowing what the temps and humidity are in the enclosure to give some hints as to why he isn't eating as much. If the tort isn't warm enough then he can't digest his food properly. Well what some do is put a cuttlefish bone for calcium in the enclosures, that gives the tort the ability to nibble on it at will. From what I've read on here and other sources that sprinkling is perfectly fine but do be careful to not add to much of the vitamins as it can be just as harmful. Definitely check out the supplement section of the caresheet here: The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise | Tortoise Forum

From the picture though your Tort looks cute!

yeah the room is at a comfortable temp and under his heat lamp is the temperature it says to be on his care sheet ( he came with) I will keep an eye out tho and maybe see if making the room a little warmer will help him. I did get one of those tortoise med block things but I think he climbs on it more than he chews it lool. Will look into your suggestions though, aww thank you he’s such a cutie love him so much ?

 

[Cherryshell]

Do you have any more pictures of your little guy? What's his backstory? I'd be interested to hear what differences there are between the care sheet you were given and the link to the one provided.

 

[Sarah2020]

They smell food before eating and if in doubt they will leave it rather than trying. Try providing fresh greens with no vitamin dusting to check. I wash all food under a tap so it goes in wet to enhance water intake. I only use calcium but as a light dusting and bury it by putting clean leaves on top. They need calcium for shell growth so maybe switch to calcium powder and just use vitamin powder occasionally. This varies tortoise by tortoise and is a trial and error to see what works. Are you soaking your tortoise? I find they eat happily when returned to the enclosure after a soak.

 

[ZenHerper]

If there is so much powder on the food that you can see it - that's too much.

Supplements are supposed to be. Supplemental. Only to round out a well-balanced diet on the off-chance that something has been missed. Over-feeding supplements can be health-damaging, and even life-threatening.

Feed a good variety of healthful greens every day, and only a mere pinch of mineral-vitamin supplement twice weekly.

******************
You must know the exact temperatures all throughout the enclosure. Reptiles cannot generate or hold heat inside their bodies, and must continually receive heat from external sources. If your temps run from "human room temperature" to "under the heat lamp", then something needs to be adjusted. Without proper temperature ranges for his species, digestion, metabolism, absorption, and elimination cannot take place.

 

[Lyn W]

Hi and welcome.
What substrate are you using?
It looks quite sandy and gritty in the pic.
Make sure you feed him on a piece of slate or in a plant saucer so that he's not eating substrate with his food.
Sand and grit aren't recommended as a substrate because can be swallowed and cause the gut to be come impacted which is very painful and dangerous. It can also irritate the eyes and skin.
Check the caresheet Cherryshell linked in above to see what is recommended.
If you post a pic of the whole of his enclosure and the lamps etc you're using you'll get great advice on any changes you may need to make to make sure he's safe and healthy.
Most torts problems are because we've not got things right and we've all had to make changes.

 

[Lyn W]

yeah the room is at a comfortable temp and under his heat lamp is the temperature it says to be on his care sheet ( he came with) I will keep an eye out tho and maybe see if making the room a little warmer will help him. I did get one of those tortoise med block things but I think he climbs on it more than he chews it lool. Will look into your suggestions though, aww thank you he’s such a cutie love him so much ?

Most pet shops and some breeders are still giving out of date and incorrect information and/or selling equipment that isn't suitable because their priority is profit. So ignore the caresheet they gave you and use the up to date caresheet you've been given here.

 

[Shellythetort]

They smell food before eating and if in doubt they will leave it rather than trying. Try providing fresh greens with no vitamin dusting to check. I wash all food under a tap so it goes in wet to enhance water intake. I only use calcium but as a light dusting and bury it by putting clean leaves on top. They need calcium for shell growth so maybe switch to calcium powder and just use vitamin powder occasionally. This varies tortoise by tortoise and is a trial and error to see what works. Are you soaking your tortoise? I find they eat happily when returned to the enclosure after a soak.

That’s so helpful thank you so much! Will definitely try this.

 

[Shellythetort]

If there is so much powder on the food that you can see it - that's too much.

Supplements are supposed to be. Supplemental. Only to round out a well-balanced diet on the off-chance that something has been missed. Over-feeding supplements can be health-damaging, and even life-threatening.

Feed a good variety of healthful greens every day, and only a mere pinch of mineral-vitamin supplement twice weekly.

******************
You must know the exact temperatures all throughout the enclosure. Reptiles cannot generate or hold heat inside their bodies, and must continually receive heat from external sources. If your temps run from "human room temperature" to "under the heat lamp", then something needs to be adjusted. Without proper temperature ranges for his species, digestion, metabolism, absorption, and elimination cannot take place.

yeah I’m not putting a lot on cause I assumed the same didn’t want him to eat to much of it and get ill but have gotten some really good suggestions regarding that.

I have got two thermometers and a electric oil filled radiator that stays on and keeps the room at a constant temp, what temp would u suggest I put that too to keep the room at that specific temperature.
It’s much more reliable then my central heating and actually stays at the exact temperature I set it too.

 

[Shellythetort]

Hi and welcome.
What substrate are you using?
It looks quite sandy and gritty in the pic.
Make sure you feed him on a piece of slate or in a plant saucer so that he's not eating substrate with his food.
Sand and grit aren't recommended as a substrate because can be swallowed and cause the gut to be come impacted which is very painful and dangerous. It can also irritate the eyes and skin.
Check the caresheet Cherryshell linked in above to see what is recommended.
If you post a pic of the whole of his enclosure and the lamps etc you're using you'll get great advice on any changes you may need to make to make sure he's safe and healthy.
Most torts problems are because we've not got things right and we've all had to make changes.

Yeah I did a lot of research about substrates and what to use and what not to use, so ive tried both the hemp and what I have now (as pictured) he absolutely loves the Sandy/muddy one apparently his species do. In his bedroom bit he does stil have some hemp to burrow into. I have a big slate for him to eat off and NEVER put food on the ground as I know the dangers of him Consuming the substrate. I also clean his environment at least twice a day providing fresh water if he has tracked too much dirt into it and gently brushing off any dirt left on his other things. He has a bath about twice a week it’s temp controlled and I have a thermometer stuck to the bottom so I know the exact temperature throughout the bath. The picture was merely me just hand feeding him a leaf.

 

[Tom]

Yeah I did a lot of research about substrates and what to use and what not to use, so ive tried both the hemp and what I have now (as pictured) he absolutely loves the Sandy/muddy one apparently his species do. In his bedroom bit he does stil have some hemp to burrow into. I have a big slate for him to eat off and NEVER put food on the ground as I know the dangers of him Consuming the substrate. I also clean his environment at least twice a day providing fresh water if he has tracked too much dirt into it and gently brushing off any dirt left on his other things. He has a bath about twice a week it’s temp controlled and I have a thermometer stuck to the bottom so I know the exact temperature throughout the bath. The picture was merely me just hand feeding him a leaf.

The problem with "research" is that most of what you find is old, out-dated and wrong. Pet shops and long time breeders are infamous for giving out the wrong info. That substrate you have is dangerous and should be removed ASAP. Hemp is no good either as its too dry.

Please listen to what I'm telling you. Your baby is pyramiding right now and its going to get far worse if you don't make some changes ASAP. You've got the wrong bulbs, wrong substrate, and it is much too dry in there for a growing baby. Read this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

With a well rounded diet, they don't even need a vitamin supplement. If you want to use one, just a tiny pinch thoroughly mixed in with the greens once a week is enough.

 

[Shellythetort]

The problem with "research" is that most of what you find is old, out-dated and wrong. Pet shops and long time breeders are infamous for giving out the wrong info. That substrate you have is dangerous and should be removed ASAP. Hemp is no good either as its too dry.

Please listen to what I'm telling you. Your baby is pyramiding right now and its going to get far worse if you don't make some changes ASAP. You've got the wrong bulbs, wrong substrate, and it is much too dry in there for a growing baby. Read this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

With a well rounded diet, they don't even need a vitamin supplement. If you want to use one, just a tiny pinch thoroughly mixed in with the greens once a week is enough.

Okay I have done extensive research, wether or not you choose to believe my only “research” was from a pet store is up to you, as for the pyramiding he’s not I can assure you, maybe from ONE photo you can’t see so well.

I joined this forum to just get some friendly advice and to be honest your approach to the matter has been rather off putting, thank you for your concern although it’s not really needed quite so much he is a happy healthy tortoise with someone who loves him very much and is in NO danger what so ever! As for my set up my bulb being wrong? ? I’m sorry but how would u even know that? The substrate that I use is solely my decision he is happy with and have done research and spoken to friends who have tortoises and have grow happy healthy torts on identical setups.

instead of commenting on something that hasn’t been asked for I suggest you keep those opinions to yourself. I will removing myself from this forum as it has not been as helpful as I had wished an instead, diluted my extensive research down to opinions.
Thanks to anyone who was nice enough to give me suggestions without being condescending.

 

[Shellythetort]

The problem with "research" is that most of what you find is old, out-dated and wrong. Pet shops and long time breeders are infamous for giving out the wrong info. That substrate you have is dangerous and should be removed ASAP. Hemp is no good either as its too dry.

Please listen to what I'm telling you. Your baby is pyramiding right now and its going to get far worse if you don't make some changes ASAP. You've got the wrong bulbs, wrong substrate, and it is much too dry in there for a growing baby. Read this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

With a well rounded diet, they don't even need a vitamin supplement. If you want to use one, just a tiny pinch thoroughly mixed in with the greens once a week is enough.

https://www.rvc.ac.uk/Media/Default/small-animal/documents/Mediterranean-tortoise-care%20-%20UPDATED-1.pdf

 

[Tom]

https://www.rvc.ac.uk/Media/Default/small-animal/documents/Mediterranean-tortoise-care%20-%20UPDATED-1.pdf

This is exactly the kind of old, outdated, incorrect info I'm referring to. Several erroneous statements are made, and several old myths are perpetuated in this document. Some of it is good info, but much of it isn't. Newspaper is a good substrate? MVBs? Open topped enclosures in a cold dry room? Feed them sugary fruits as treats? Heat mats and heat plates? All wrong.

Suit yourself, but in time you will learn the hard way, exactly what I've learned the hard way, at your tortoises expense. Think about it. Tortoises have calcium cravings. That substrate made of sand and soil has limestone bits in it. Your tortoise is going to eat that sandy substrate to satisfy its calcium cravings and sand impaction is likely. This is a terrible idea, and that substrate shouldn't even be on the market. Its a terrible idea!

The mercury vapor bulb you are using, as seen in the pic, caused excessive desiccation of the carapace. In young growing animals, this causes pyramiding and that is exactly what your tortoise is showing in the picture. See the indentations forming between each scute? That is pyramiding. It will get worse if you continue on as you have been.

Please understand that I am not insulting you or attacking you. It is obvious that you are a good tortoise owner and care deeply about the well being of your tortoise. What I am telling you is that there is a world wide problem with misinformation on how to raise tortoises. Vets, books, breeders, and reptile experts have it all wrong, and in the past, so did I. Following that old advice led to failure after failure. I did it that way for 2 decades. Then, when I realized they were wrong, I started researching and conducting growth experiments and looking all over the world for clues to solve this puzzle. With lots of help, time, and experimentation, I/we have found what works best and what doesn't. In the last 10-12 years, these facts have been shared across the globe in several languages, and people now universally get the same positive results around the world. My findings have been duplicated with success thousands upon thousands of times everywhere from Germany, to Japan, to Korea, China, the UK, Africa, and all of the US.

If you care about the well-being of your baby, give this a read. Then come back and question everything that doesn't make sense to you. Take me to task. Make me explain why I make these assertions. As I said, given enough time and trial and error, everyone will learn this stuff. My goal is to shorten that learning curve for people, and save the tortoises from the "error". If you check out and disregard this info, it is to the detriment of your tortoise.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

While we argue and you ponder leaving, the damage being done to your tortoises carapace gets worse each day. This damage is irreversible, and you will be reminded of your decision to leave this forum every day as you look upon those pyramids that didn't have to be there.

 

[Gijoux]

Okay I have done extensive research, wether or not you choose to believe my only “research” was from a pet store is up to you, as for the pyramiding he’s not I can assure you, maybe from ONE photo you can’t see so well.

I joined this forum to just get some friendly advice and to be honest your approach to the matter has been rather off putting, thank you for your concern although it’s not really needed quite so much he is a happy healthy tortoise with someone who loves him very much and is in NO danger what so ever! As for my set up my bulb being wrong? ? I’m sorry but how would u even know that? The substrate that I use is solely my decision he is happy with and have done research and spoken to friends who have tortoises and have grow happy healthy torts on identical setups.

instead of commenting on something that hasn’t been asked for I suggest you keep those opinions to yourself. I will removing myself from this forum as it has not been as helpful as I had wished an instead, diluted my extensive research down to opinions.
Thanks to anyone who was nice enough to give me suggestions without being condescending.

Shellythetort you posted that you were worried that your tortoise wasn't eating enough of the vitamin powder. They shouldn't need any vitamin powder if they are fed the correct foods, have the correct lighting and substrate that won't cause a depletion in nutrients they do eat. You mention in this post "he is a happy healthy tortoise with someone who loves him very much and is NO danger what so ever!" Well it sounds like you have answered your own question. He doesn't need any more of the vitamin powder.