young hermann's shell

theodorejr

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Austria
Hello!

This morning after their daily soak i noticed this small ''bump'' on their shell in the front middle as seen in the pictures. Is this normal growth or should i be concerned about pyramiding and such?

Thank you
 

Attachments

  • theo.jpg
    theo.jpg
    971.3 KB · Views: 1
  • theo 2.jpg
    theo 2.jpg
    854 KB · Views: 2

theodorejr

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Austria
Could you circle the part you are concerned about? I don't see anything concerning. What about you? @wellington @Tom


Here i circled it. I did look for other baby hermann's and they all have it i guess thats just their normal shell, im just very anxious about proper housing so i wanted to make sure!
 

Attachments

  • theo.jpg
    theo.jpg
    973.2 KB · Views: 3

Littleredfootbigredheart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2023
Messages
1,354
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Hello!

This morning after their daily soak i noticed this small ''bump'' on their shell in the front middle as seen in the pictures. Is this normal growth or should i be concerned about pyramiding and such?

Thank you
Hello and welcome to the forum!
I’ll allow some of the more experienced members to answer your question here, but in the meantime if you could answer some questions about your set up that’d be super helpful!🙂

What size enclosure are you keeping him in? He ideally needs a bare minimum of an 8x4 foot set up to roam once he’s an adult, roaming is absolutely vital to the well being of tortoise health, it strengthens their muscles and aids in digestion, they’d walk miles in the wild. Something smaller for now is fine though of course

What lights are you using? What is your uv situation?
Your basking area temp? Ambient day temp? Night temp?

For the basking area he needs a incandescent floodlight(pic attached) avoid anything that says halogen or mercury vapour, it needs to be on a 12hour timer, directly under the bulb should be reading 95-100f(36-37c) the rest of the enclosure should ranging 75-80

Night can drop into 60’s, if your house drops lower than that a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) on a thermostat will be needed.

For uv you need a t5 fluorescent tube light, I’d personally recommend the Arcadia brand, it comes with a built in reflector fitting as to not waste any uv light, this needs to be on a separate 4hour timer from noonish mounted about 18-20 inches from the substrate. Also included a pic on how some people mount those.

Humidity for a hatchling like yours needs to be maintained around 80% 24/7, the best way to achieve this would be to use a greenhouse topper, some people make their own base, or use something like a flower bed base and line with pond liner, then securing the greenhouse on top, if you can’t find an exact fit for your base, place it like the one with the white base, I’d put some lining under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor.
You can even hang your lights from the frame! Just wrap the wire around to get the height you need(check with a temp gun for the height of your basking bulb, uv should be about 18-21 inches) and secure with cable ties.

What substrate is it you’re using? I’d personally recommend orchid bark, you want to aim for a damp bottom layer and a dryer top layer, to stop that top layer getting a little too dry though mix the substrate now n then which will also help boosting humidity. To maintain your humidity, pour lukewarm water into the corners of the substrate, not loads but enough to dampen the bottom layer, keep and eye on your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed👍

Ignore whatever else is in the enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give an idea🙂

Try and upload a photo of your set up if you can! It’s so helpful for the members advising!😊
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1683.png
    IMG_1683.png
    151.5 KB · Views: 3
  • IMG_1669.png
    IMG_1669.png
    149.5 KB · Views: 5
  • IMG_1674.jpeg
    IMG_1674.jpeg
    60.6 KB · Views: 4
  • IMG_1675.jpeg
    IMG_1675.jpeg
    104.4 KB · Views: 4
  • IMG_1672.jpeg
    IMG_1672.jpeg
    84.7 KB · Views: 6
  • IMG_1628.png
    IMG_1628.png
    178.4 KB · Views: 4

Littleredfootbigredheart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2023
Messages
1,354
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Here i circled it. I did look for other baby hermann's and they all have it i guess thats just their normal shell, im just very anxious about proper housing so i wanted to make sure!
It looks like their spine to me personally but perhaps Yvonne or Tom will say different, hopefully we can get a look at your set up too🙂
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
64,102
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Here i circled it. I did look for other baby hermann's and they all have it i guess thats just their normal shell, im just very anxious about proper housing so i wanted to make sure!
The circled part is normal, but the deep ridges between the scutes indicate that conditions are too dry, or that you are using the wrong bulbs. Irreparable damage is being done daily. Correct the problem immediately to prevent further damage.

Please take a few minutes to read through this thread at least twice. You will learn a lot of helpful info, and questions are welcome.
 

theodorejr

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Austria
Hello and welcome to the forum!
I’ll allow some of the more experienced members to answer your question here, but in the meantime if you could answer some questions about your set up that’d be super helpful!🙂

What size enclosure are you keeping him in? He ideally needs a bare minimum of an 8x4 foot set up to roam once he’s an adult, roaming is absolutely vital to the well being of tortoise health, it strengthens their muscles and aids in digestion, they’d walk miles in the wild. Something smaller for now is fine though of course

What lights are you using? What is your uv situation?
Your basking area temp? Ambient day temp? Night temp?

For the basking area he needs a incandescent floodlight(pic attached) avoid anything that says halogen or mercury vapour, it needs to be on a 12hour timer, directly under the bulb should be reading 95-100f(36-37c) the rest of the enclosure should ranging 75-80

Night can drop into 60’s, if your house drops lower than that a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) on a thermostat will be needed.

For uv you need a t5 fluorescent tube light, I’d personally recommend the Arcadia brand, it comes with a built in reflector fitting as to not waste any uv light, this needs to be on a separate 4hour timer from noonish mounted about 18-20 inches from the substrate. Also included a pic on how some people mount those.

Humidity for a hatchling like yours needs to be maintained around 80% 24/7, the best way to achieve this would be to use a greenhouse topper, some people make their own base, or use something like a flower bed base and line with pond liner, then securing the greenhouse on top, if you can’t find an exact fit for your base, place it like the one with the white base, I’d put some lining under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor.
You can even hang your lights from the frame! Just wrap the wire around to get the height you need(check with a temp gun for the height of your basking bulb, uv should be about 18-21 inches) and secure with cable ties.

What substrate is it you’re using? I’d personally recommend orchid bark, you want to aim for a damp bottom layer and a dryer top layer, to stop that top layer getting a little too dry though mix the substrate now n then which will also help boosting humidity. To maintain your humidity, pour lukewarm water into the corners of the substrate, not loads but enough to dampen the bottom layer, keep and eye on your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed👍

Ignore whatever else is in the enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give an idea🙂

Try and upload a photo of your set up if you can! It’s so helpful for the members advising!😊
Hello! Thank you for your detailed reply!

I build my own enclosure thats 177c
Hello and welcome to the forum!
I’ll allow some of the more experienced members to answer your question here, but in the meantime if you could answer some questions about your set up that’d be super helpful!🙂

What size enclosure are you keeping him in? He ideally needs a bare minimum of an 8x4 foot set up to roam once he’s an adult, roaming is absolutely vital to the well being of tortoise health, it strengthens their muscles and aids in digestion, they’d walk miles in the wild. Something smaller for now is fine though of course

What lights are you using? What is your uv situation?
Your basking area temp? Ambient day temp? Night temp?

For the basking area he needs a incandescent floodlight(pic attached) avoid anything that says halogen or mercury vapour, it needs to be on a 12hour timer, directly under the bulb should be reading 95-100f(36-37c) the rest of the enclosure should ranging 75-80

Night can drop into 60’s, if your house drops lower than that a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) on a thermostat will be needed.

For uv you need a t5 fluorescent tube light, I’d personally recommend the Arcadia brand, it comes with a built in reflector fitting as to not waste any uv light, this needs to be on a separate 4hour timer from noonish mounted about 18-20 inches from the substrate. Also included a pic on how some people mount those.

Humidity for a hatchling like yours needs to be maintained around 80% 24/7, the best way to achieve this would be to use a greenhouse topper, some people make their own base, or use something like a flower bed base and line with pond liner, then securing the greenhouse on top, if you can’t find an exact fit for your base, place it like the one with the white base, I’d put some lining under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor.
You can even hang your lights from the frame! Just wrap the wire around to get the height you need(check with a temp gun for the height of your basking bulb, uv should be about 18-21 inches) and secure with cable ties.

What substrate is it you’re using? I’d personally recommend orchid bark, you want to aim for a damp bottom layer and a dryer top layer, to stop that top layer getting a little too dry though mix the substrate now n then which will also help boosting humidity. To maintain your humidity, pour lukewarm water into the corners of the substrate, not loads but enough to dampen the bottom layer, keep and eye on your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed👍

Ignore whatever else is in the enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give an idea🙂

Try and upload a photo of your set up if you can! It’s so helpful for the members advising!😊
Hello! Thank you for your detailed reply!

I build my own enclosure thats 177cm long, 77cm wide and a height of 39cm, i use a tortoise substrate that includes peat moss, clay and calcium carbonate thats about 10cm deep, and i have orchid bark and coco husk for different top layers. i saw in some threads on here that i should use coco coir and cypress mulch and i will definitely do that this month and change it to that.

i currently use a mesh lid on top bc i was confident that im able to maintain humidity but sadly thats not the case thats why right now im debating over buying a greenhouse top like you sent in the pictures or a deep and bigger storage box with a lid, like i have seen at garden state tortoise. currently sadly only able to get about 70% humidity, tho the underground layers of my substrate are always damp and my tortoise most of the time burrow there underneath the heating lamp or use the box in the corner where im able to maintain the humidity. i spray it daily and soak the tortoise every morning for 30 minutes.

my temperature underneath the heating lamp are about 36.5 grad celsius and on the cooler end about 25 grad celsius. in the night its about 24 grad celsius.

i have a zoomed 100w bulb as heating lamp with the deep fixture dome and two t10 uvb stripes that go across the enclosure.

if i go with the storage box option i wanted to change it to a 50w exo terra basking bulb and a zoomed reptisun compact 5.0 fluorescent uvb and use both with the zoomed mini combi deep dome lamp fixture.

here's pictures of my current set up
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7257.jpeg
    IMG_7257.jpeg
    1.1 MB · Views: 4
  • IMG_7255.jpeg
    IMG_7255.jpeg
    2.1 MB · Views: 2
  • IMG_7256.jpeg
    IMG_7256.jpeg
    2.2 MB · Views: 2

theodorejr

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Austria
The circled part is normal, but the deep ridges between the scutes indicate that conditions are too dry, or that you are using the wrong bulbs. Irreparable damage is being done daily. Correct the problem immediately to prevent further damage.

Please take a few minutes to read through this thread at least twice. You will learn a lot of helpful info, and questions are welcome.
Yes i read your thread today and am ready to change my current enclosure to a closed chamber hopefully for the little one to have a bright future.
Is a storage container with the measures 38cm wide, 58cm long and a height of 36cm too little for a tortoise of 2 1/2 inches or is it enough for right now ? see attachment of the storage box i plan on using then
 

Attachments

  • Unbenannt.PNG
    Unbenannt.PNG
    49 KB · Views: 1

Alex and the Redfoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Messages
2,313
Location (City and/or State)
Cyprus
Yes i read your thread today and am ready to change my current enclosure to a closed chamber hopefully for the little one to have a bright future.
Is a storage container with the measures 38cm wide, 58cm long and a height of 36cm too little for a tortoise of 2 1/2 inches or is it enough for right now ? see attachment of the storage box i plan on using then
Yes. This is way too small. The enclosure you have now - is a good sized one.

In a small box you can't create temperature gradients, no enrichment, very limited set of heating/lightning equipment. And yes, stay away from double domes and compact lamps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom

theodorejr

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Austria
Yes. This is way too small. The enclosure you have now - is a good sized one.

In a small box you can't create temperature gradients, no enrichment, very limited set of heating/lightning equipment. And yes, stay away from double domes and compact lamps.
Okay, so a greenhouse topper of my current enclosure would be a better decision?
 

Alex and the Redfoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Messages
2,313
Location (City and/or State)
Cyprus
Okay, so a greenhouse topper of my current enclosure would be a better decision?
Yes, definitely. Or, as you have meshed top - maybe you can add thin plexiglass or polycarbonate sheets over it. Or a plastic film. Of course, if all heating and lightning is under the meshed hood.
 

Littleredfootbigredheart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2023
Messages
1,354
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Hello! Thank you for your detailed reply!

I build my own enclosure thats 177c

Hello! Thank you for your detailed reply!

I build my own enclosure thats 177cm long, 77cm wide and a height of 39cm, i use a tortoise substrate that includes peat moss, clay and calcium carbonate thats about 10cm deep, and i have orchid bark and coco husk for different top layers. i saw in some threads on here that i should use coco coir and cypress mulch and i will definitely do that this month and change it to that.

i currently use a mesh lid on top bc i was confident that im able to maintain humidity but sadly thats not the case thats why right now im debating over buying a greenhouse top like you sent in the pictures or a deep and bigger storage box with a lid, like i have seen at garden state tortoise. currently sadly only able to get about 70% humidity, tho the underground layers of my substrate are always damp and my tortoise most of the time burrow there underneath the heating lamp or use the box in the corner where im able to maintain the humidity. i spray it daily and soak the tortoise every morning for 30 minutes.

my temperature underneath the heating lamp are about 36.5 grad celsius and on the cooler end about 25 grad celsius. in the night its about 24 grad celsius.

i have a zoomed 100w bulb as heating lamp with the deep fixture dome and two t10 uvb stripes that go across the enclosure.

if i go with the storage box option i wanted to change it to a 50w exo terra basking bulb and a zoomed reptisun compact 5.0 fluorescent uvb and use both with the zoomed mini combi deep dome lamp fixture.

here's pictures of my current set up
I’m afraid your substrate needs switching asap! Any moss in substrate is dangerous! It will cause impaction if eaten, the clay and calcium carbonate is also not suitable far as I’m aware. Definitely get switched to orchid bark. Coco coir is also fine, just make sure it’s damp and firmly packed down. You don’t ever want dusty substrate.

Unfortunately you won’t be able to maintain the humidity you’re needing for this hatchling with an open top, definitely get yourself a topper and maintain the humidity with the method I mentioned(avoid foggers or misters, they cause respiratory problems) Spraying will also only last so long and just focuses on your top layer getting wet which isn’t what you want. In a closed chamber using the pour method you should have no issues.

The basking bulb needs to be a incandescent floodlight like the one I attached, I can’t speak for that uv you’re using currently but what ever you do, don’t switch to a compact uv bulb! They don’t give out enough uv and are damaging to the tortoises eyes! You need a t5 tube bulb. The double dome won’t be necessary as you need to hang your floodlight in the basking area and your ambient lighting separately so it’s lighting the entire enclosure, make shady spaces with plants and hides. And the t5 comes with the fitting you need

Your temps sound pretty good and I’m always happy to see someone using a terracotta saucer as their water dish! Definitely safest🙌🏻
I think once you’ve made some adjustments like the topper and correct lighting, your humidity won’t be a battle and all shall be well🙂
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1683.png
    IMG_1683.png
    151.5 KB · Views: 1
  • IMG_1669.png
    IMG_1669.png
    149.5 KB · Views: 2

Littleredfootbigredheart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2023
Messages
1,354
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Yes, definitely. Or, as you have meshed top - maybe you can add thin plexiglass or polycarbonate sheets over it. Or a plastic film. Of course, if all heating and lightning is under the meshed hood.
I think with their enclosure height that may not be possible as the lights needs to be under any covering and the lid looks too low to attach bulbs
 

Alex and the Redfoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Messages
2,313
Location (City and/or State)
Cyprus
Also, you have mentioned T10 fluorescent strips. Was a typo? These are really rare (and old, I guess) lamp types comparing to T8 and T5 lamps. Can you share a lamp label/box or link to what lamps do you use? I have a bad feeling, that they don't provide enough UVB.
 

Littleredfootbigredheart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2023
Messages
1,354
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Also, you have mentioned T10 fluorescent strips. Was a typo? These are really rare (and old, I guess) lamp types comparing to T8 and T5 lamps. Can you share a lamp label/box or link to what lamps do you use? I have a bad feeling, that they don't provide enough UVB.
Yes T10 threw me a bit too, I’d be interested to see packaging?
 

Alex and the Redfoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Messages
2,313
Location (City and/or State)
Cyprus
I think with their enclosure height that may not be possible as the lights needs to be under any covering and the lid looks too low to attach bulbs
I have overlooked the photo where meshed screen is clearly seen. Greenhouse top is the easiest to set up, if the right size is available.
 

theodorejr

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Austria
Yes, definitely. Or, as you have meshed top - maybe you can add thin plexiglass or polycarbonate sheets over it. Or a plastic film. Of course, if all heating and lightning is under the meshed hood.
the lamps are the biggest problem i have with rn with the meshed lit. because my heating lamp definitely has to be 20 inches away right now because 1002
I think with their enclosure height that may not be possible as the lights needs to be under any covering and the lid looks too low to attach bulbs
yes exactly thats my main struggle therwise i wouldve put a plexiglass already on it IMMEDIATELY.. but with the greenhouse topper it could definitely work i really really hope im able to find one for that size i cant bare for them to live like this any day longer i really want everything to be perfect for them
 

Littleredfootbigredheart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2023
Messages
1,354
Location (City and/or State)
UK
the lamps are the biggest problem i have with rn with the meshed lit. because my heating lamp definitely has to be 20 inches away right now because 1002

yes exactly thats my main struggle therwise i wouldve put a plexiglass already on it IMMEDIATELY.. but with the greenhouse topper it could definitely work i really really hope im able to find one for that size i cant bare for them to live like this any day longer i really want everything to be perfect for them
Bless you! Don’t worry this can all soon get rectified! You’re in the right place now for the best advice moving forward❤️
If you can’t find an exact fit, I’m not sure if your table can be removed from its stand? If so get a topper that’s slightly bigger and place like this maybe? Just put some lining under your base and cover to avoid the condensate on your floor, hope this helps!
Keep us in the loop with your progress😊
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1674.jpeg
    IMG_1674.jpeg
    60.6 KB · Views: 1

New Posts

Top