Zoo incorrectly housing tortoises

[thehowards]

So I went to the local zoo the Sanford Zoo in central fl and they have a few torts there but today I noticed they had a red foot and a leopard tot in the same enclosure. They were about the same size with the Red foot being at most a inch larger. The red foot was furiously following the leopard on its heels and when the leopard stopped running the red foot got right up next to leopard and the red foot bobbed his head at the leopard. This was my first time seeing a tort aggression in person but I know it wasn't right the enclosed area a 20x20 aviary. I will be writing to the zoo to let them know that this is very wrong.

 

[Blakem]

Try to not come off so strong to the zoo in your letter, you want to try and approach the situation a little nicer. Explain what you saw, why it was aggression, and why they don't do well in pairs. Talk about the male dominating the other male, or the male harassing the female and that it can possibly cause death. Make yourself approachable if they have other questions and so you don't come off as a know it all. People don't want advice from someone that's just telling them it's very wrong.

 

[domalle]

So I went to the local zoo the Sanford Zoo in central fl and they have a few torts there but today I noticed they had a red foot and a leopard tot in the same enclosure. They were about the same size with the Red foot being at most a inch larger. The red foot was furiously following the leopard on its heels and when the leopard stopped running the red foot got right up next to leopard and the red foot bobbed his head at the leopard. This was my first time seeing a tort aggression in person but I know it wasn't right the enclosed area a 20x20 aviary. I will be writing to the zoo to let them know that this is very wrong.

Tortoise following and head bobbing behavior aren't necessarily aggression.
This could be confused courtship behavior.
The redfoot may be trying to determine if the leopard is a prospective mate.
But if left together, it could advance to aggression and harm to the animals.
And you're right, these two animals should be separated immediately.

Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to bring this to the attention of the zookeepers.
You might mention to them that these two animals are from completely different continents
and that housing them together would interfere with the zoo's responsibility to present the zoo-going public
with an accurate representation and display of natural behaviors in its animal collection.
Good luck.

 

[wellington]

Good for you for stepping forward to try and change this. I don't like when people complain about what they see, but then do nothing to try and help the animals. After all, they can't speak for themselves.
Like they said above, try to be very nice about it. Explain your concerns, give facts and even refer them to care sheets on TFO.
Good luck, keep on it and let us know if any changes are made. If they refuse to do anything about it, we could all send them letters.

 

[dmmj]

I don't know about other guys but I would find confused courtship a little aggressive

 

[Speedy-1]

Great that you caught that ! A friendly suggestion pertaining to what you saw could be very effective and helpful to the Zoo .

 

[Anthony P]

It's not a mistake, I'm sure. And "incorrectly" is your opinion, really. To them, it might be entirely correct. Zoos are still businesses, and can house animals however they like. Where do you draw the line as far as cohabitating species? Just wondering, because I am sure you would have an issue at every zoo you visit. Geochelone with Stigmochelys, Tortoises with Lemurs, Turtles with Crocs, Ostrich with Kangaroos, etc.

I was at a zoo two days ago that had Trachemys, Chrysemys, Psuedemys, Agrionemys, Geochelone and Centrochelys, all in the same small enclosure. I didn't even look twice. They also had turkeys and Emus together. They had a sulcata in a pen with a pig. None of it surprises me anymore.

 

[Yvonne G]

...and it's really too bad because seeing this may very well be the only way folks ever see animals. Then they learn it is quite ok for them to also mix species.

Zoos have very stringent quarantine practices. The mixing of species probably won't introduce illness to the tortoises, however, the requirement for different habitat conditions might adversely affect them, with the RF needing a bit more humidity than the leopard.

 

[wellington]

My opinion about zoos, if you can't afford to do it right, then don't do it. They are the place everyone goes to, to see animals they normally could never own. To learn about them, etc. for a zoo to do it wrong in my opinion, is just unforgivable to me. That's one place that should always do it right and the best. Now, I no that's in my fantasy world, as I have learned since joining this forum, but if they don't have the room, don't take them in.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Zoos are evolving and changing for the better.
When i first saw the zoos in Morocco thirty odd years ago, they were horrendous, now they're pretty good and improving.
People complain, people teach, people learn, but zoos don't have the time, space or money to change overnight.

 

[Gillian M]

A good idea, to write to the zoo, and good luck.

But as was said by a couple of members; please be diplomatic in your letter, and say all that you have to say in a smooth way. Unfortunately zoos are a business and the poor animals are to pay the price for the mistakes made by the zoos, which is too bad.

Please keep us updated-would like to see their reaction to the letter.

 

[Keith D.]

Very good that you are willing to say something cause lord knows I would and have.
My experience is a little more hands on though. I was in my late teens at this time and have had a few different tortoises, 1 DT by adoption from F&G in California when I was 9 and wish I still had him but that story ends in tragedy so not going into that ATM cause it makes me cry. Anyway had a couple sulcatas and boxies.
OK back to my experience, my family and i went to this little nature reserve/zoo in So. Cal. They had a huge aldabra and two sulcatas in the same pen. The owners of the place was there an

 

[Keith D.]

Very good that you are willing to say something cause lord knows I would and have.
My experience is a little more hands on though. I was in my late teens at this time and have had a few different tortoises, 1 DT by adoption from F&G in California when I was 9 and wish I still had him but that story ends in tragedy so not going into that ATM cause it makes me cry. Anyway had a couple sulcatas and boxies.
OK back to my experience, my family and i went to this little nature reserve/zoo in So. Cal. They had a huge aldabra (how i fell in love with aldabras) and two sulcatas in the same pen. The owners of the place was there so I went and introduced myself to them and they gave be a behind the scenes tour and we started chating about how the torts were housed and the damage that has been done to the sulcatas shells. The owners couldn't figure it out so I talked with them about setting up one of my cameras to watch them, they agreed cause they were clueless, nice couple but clueless lol. So the day after I setup the cameras I came back and we watched the video and found out that the Aldabra (male) was ramming the sulcatas (both males) into the side of the cement block wall. Well with all of that the owners asked me to help them with setting up new enclosures, they wanted 2 but I talked them into 3. So we drew up the new designs and hired the appropriate contractors, the demo and remodel took three months all the time I did it pro bono for one huge reason, cause I got to bring that amazing aldabra home with me to house and care for for all that time, his name was Thor and he was huge lol Anyway those were the most exciting months of my life. During those three months the two sulcatas were housed at a herp vet to get treatment for there injuries and shell DMG. I really wish I still had the pics so I could share them, but I lost a lot of stuff when my laptop was stolen a few years ago. Anyway after everything was done and around $20,000 later they had three beautiful enclosures with tons of native grasses and stuff for them to eat and shallow cement lined pools a petting area and a area for education and indoor hibernation. Did I mention it was the most amazing three months of my life lol. The aldabra was estimated to be close to 200 years old and weighed 654 pounds when he passed a couple years ago due to some drunk guy shooting him, it was heartbreaking, especially to me. The sulcatas are still living and thriving. But I guess the morel of this story is when in doubt help out lol.

 

[domalle]

It's not a mistake, I'm sure. And "incorrectly" is your opinion, really. To them, it might be entirely correct. Zoos are still businesses, and can house animals however they like. Where do you draw the line as far as cohabitating species? Just wondering, because I am sure you would have an issue at every zoo you visit. Geochelone with Stigmochelys, Tortoises with Lemurs, Turtles with Crocs, Ostrich with Kangaroos, etc.

I was at a zoo two days ago that had Trachemys, Chrysemys, Psuedemys, Agrionemys, Geochelone and Centrochelys, all in the same small enclosure. I didn't even look twice. They also had turkeys and Emus together. They had a sulcata in a pen with a pig. None of it surprises me anymore.

I think the line has to be drawn where there is potential for injury or harm to any of the animals placed together in the enclosure.

 

[dmmj]

let's see hey zookeeper I know better than you do that should go over very well

 

[Keith D.]

let's see hey zookeeper I know better than you do that should go over very well

Sometimes things just have to be said...

 

[dmmj]

Sometimes things just have to be said...

okay your choice don't expect warm hugs

 

[Keith D.]

okay your choice don't expect warm hugs

I would guess if you go about it the right way and if the zoo keepers "truelly" cared for the animals they are payed to care for there wouldn't be a issue with someone mentioning a possible issue with there husbandry.

 

[domalle]

I would guess if you go about it the right way and if the zoo keepers "truelly" cared for the animals they are payed to care for there wouldn't be a issue with someone mentioning a possible issue with there husbandry.

I agree.
The Curator of Reptiles and the Herpetology staff at the Bronx Zoo always openly shared information and took suggestions.
There are good quality people working very hard in zoos. And yes, sometimes they don't have all the information they should.
And sometimes they are overwhelmed by their many responsibilities and the bureaucracies they have to contend with.
And they aren't compensated very well.