Single night box for desert tortoise

[NancKj]

HI all!
I hope someone can help me direct this question to Tom, as it is specifically about his single tort night box... Altho anyone else with experience with desert torts is more than welcome to chime in.
Can this 4x2 box be reduced in size to 3x2, or even smaller, and still contain the proper heating elements? I would ideally want it about 30" length, 24" wide, 18" high. And the door width maybe 15"?
My 2 torts, each would have their own box of course, are on the smaller size, 10 and 8lbs, although the smaller one may still be growing? I want to start reaching out to handyman types this week, so want to be prepared with all dimensions, what size heating mat and RHP I would need ect for this proposed smaller night box. Also, anyone anywhere remotely near Los Angeles area who could build these for me?? Thank you!!! Nancy Kj

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Nanc:

How you alert a member on the forum is to type an @ in front of their username, so for Tom it would look like this - @Tom


I don't provide heat for my desert tortoises once they move outside. While in the house they live in a Vision enclosure:



Then when they outgrow this enclosure and are ready to move outside, I set up a smaller area of the desert tortoise yard to put them in for their first year outside. In the smaller area I"m able to find them easier to bring them inside for the night. The first year outside they go out in the morning then I bring them inside for the night. This is spring and fall, summer they stay out day and night. When I bring them in I just put them in a cardboard box with the flaps folded over and set the box in a warmish area of the house for the night. The next year, year two for them to be outside, I turn them loose in the larger yard and leave them out all the time. Of course, I go around each evening and make sure they are all inside their shelter and I block the door so they can't get out. After the first year outside I allow them to brumate. There is no heat in the desert tortoises' outside yard.

 

[NancKj]

Hi Nanc:

How you alert a member on the forum is to type an @ in front of their username, so for Tom it would look like this - @Tom


I don't provide heat for my desert tortoises once they move outside. While in the house they live in a Vision enclosure:

View attachment 370140

Then when they outgrow this enclosure and are ready to move outside, I set up a smaller area of the desert tortoise yard to put them in for their first year outside. In the smaller area I"m able to find them easier to bring them inside for the night. The first year outside they go out in the morning then I bring them inside for the night. This is spring and fall, summer they stay out day and night. When I bring them in I just put them in a cardboard box with the flaps folded over and set the box in a warmish area of the house for the night. The next year, year two for them to be outside, I turn them loose in the larger yard and leave them out all the time. Of course, I go around each evening and make sure they are all inside their shelter and I block the door so they can't get out. After the first year outside I allow them to brumate. There is no heat in the desert tortoises' outside yard.

Thanks Yvonne! I am anticipating a move to Tehachapi this summer. Elevatiion will be about 4100 feet, so certainly cooler than where I live now at 800 feet in the San Fernando Valley. So I am anticipating they will need a warm house for spring and fall. Does that seem reasonable?

 

[Tom]

Thanks Yvonne! I am anticipating a move to Tehachapi this summer. Elevatiion will be about 4100 feet, so certainly cooler than where I live now at 800 feet in the San Fernando Valley. So I am anticipating they will need a warm house for spring and fall. Does that seem reasonable?

Thank you @Yvonne G for the assist.

@NancKj Having control of the temperature is ALWAYS better than not having control. When the weather cooperates in spring and fall and the sun is shining, you don't need any additional heat for them. When we have cold spells, like we just did for the last three days, its nice to have heat to keep them healthy and functioning.

Making the box less than 4x4 feet is not advisable. If using the heat mat and RHP combo, they need a place to move off of the heat source.

I would recommend a double box in your case, heated with a mini radiant oil heater and a basking lamp on each side. The heater just keeps the night temps from being too cold, as their burrow would in the wild. We aren't keeping DTs 85 degrees at night, but outdoors in damp 40 degree spring air isn't good either. I like 65-70ish degrees overnight for them. Can they survive lower? Absolutely! Is lower "good" for them? No, I don't believe it is based on my results of trying both side-by-side over many years. Their burrows in the wild protect them from temperature extremes, both hot and cold.

The heat lamps are set on timers and they are off most of the time, like for the next 10 days or so, when the spring time weather is normal and nice. The heat lamps are nice for times like this last weekend when it is cold and over cast and they have no other way to warm up. Again, can they survive without the heat lamps? Yes. Yes they can. Is it "good" for them to sit there and be cold after filling their guts with food during the warm spell that preceded the cold spell? I say that is NOT good for them.

The box I'm describing is shown here with pictures and more explanation. You could build a double door one like this one and only have to heat and maintain one box for both tortoises if you wanted to.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

For adult DTs, I would make a 4x8 box and divide it in half, but you can probably get away with the 4x4. I would not go smaller than that.

 

[NancKj]

Thank you @Yvonne G for the assist.

@NancKj Having control of the temperature is ALWAYS better than not having control. When the weather cooperates in spring and fall and the sun is shining, you don't need any additional heat for them. When we have cold spells, like we just did for the last three days, its nice to have heat to keep them healthy and functioning.

Making the box less than 4x4 feet is not advisable. If using the heat mat and RHP combo, they need a place to move off of the heat source.

I would recommend a double box in your case, heated with a mini radiant oil heater and a basking lamp on each side. The heater just keeps the night temps from being too cold, as their burrow would in the wild. We aren't keeping DTs 85 degrees at night, but outdoors in damp 40 degree spring air isn't good either. I like 65-70ish degrees overnight for them. Can they survive lower? Absolutely! Is lower "good" for them? No, I don't believe it is based on my results of trying both side-by-side over many years. Their burrows in the wild protect them from temperature extremes, both hot and cold.

The heat lamps are set on timers and they are off most of the time, like for the next 10 days or so, when the spring time weather is normal and nice. The heat lamps are nice for times like this last weekend when it is cold and over cast and they have no other way to warm up. Again, can they survive without the heat lamps? Yes. Yes they can. Is it "good" for them to sit there and be cold after filling their guts with food during the warm spell that preceded the cold spell? I say that is NOT good for them.

The box I'm describing is shown here with pictures and more explanation. You could build a double door one like this one and only have to heat and maintain one box for both tortoises if you wanted to.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

For adult DTs, I would make a 4x8 box and divide it in half, but you can probably get away with the 4x4. I would not go smaller than that.

So, are you saying, for my DT's, perhaps a 4x4, divided in half, with mini radiant oil heater and 2 basking lamps and a double door?? Do I need to worry about fire hazard??

 

[Tom]

So, are you saying, for my DT's, perhaps a 4x4, divided in half, with mini radiant oil heater and 2 basking lamps and a double door?? Do I need to worry about fire hazard??

Yes, that would work great. I'd do a 4x8 so that each one had a 4x4 chamber to themselves.

I've been using over a dozen of these boxes for a couple of decades and haven't had a fire yet, so I would say no, you don't have to worry. I have 12 of them running right now. The oil heaters are very safe and can't start a fire even when touching wood. The heat lamps are mounted to the ceiling and nothing can touch them, so those are safe too.

 

[NancKj]

Yes, that would work great. I'd do a 4x8 so that each one had a 4x4 chamber to themselves.

I've been using over a dozen of these boxes for a couple of decades and haven't had a fire yet, so I would say no, you don't have to worry. I have 12 of them running right now. The oil heaters are very safe and can't start a fire even when touching wood. The heat lamps are mounted to the ceiling and nothing can touch them, so those are safe too.

Thank you!!

 

[NancKj]

@Yvonne G
Hi Yvonne. Tom gave me some very good information regarding how he would set up heated night box for my torts. May I ask you what you would do different from what you do now, if anything, if you lived in or moved to Tehachapi at 4100' elevation? Would you do heated outside night boxes like Tom? Or manage the cooler spring/fall temps another way? Thank you!
Nancy Kj