How do I catch nesting activity in my outdoor enclosure?

[Tccarolina]

My outdoor enclosure is a natural setup, and my greek and hermann's will live there year round. None of my females have been big enough to lay eggs until now. Does anyone have ideas of how to catch nesting activity?
Will all females tend to gravitate to the same location to lay nests, or will they likely be spread out all over the pen?
Will the nesting always be in late morning? How long does it typically take? I work during the day and my wife isn't going to comb through the enclosure looking for nesting tortoises every morning!
I know pacing and activity increases prior to egg-laying, but I doubt I'll really notice this in my pen.
I'm toying with the idea of a time-lapse weatherproof camera shooting onto the nesting area, once I identify a nesting area. Then I could review footage quickly every several days or once a week to know where nests were laid and who laid them. If it captured an image once a minute, and the data were easy to transfer to my computer for review.
Maybe something like this.
http://www.plot-stalker.com/

 

[NEtorts]

I have been wondering the same thing with my greek female who surprised me last year when i had three hatchlings in the enclosure that i didnt know where laid!! I know they have been mating again this spring and I have been checking around daily for scratched up dirt that could be a laying site...... very hard to tell

 

[GBtortoises]

My Ibera and especially my Hermann's females will begin to act differently a few days before nesting. They will often not eat, or eat very minimal amounts of food. They will often drink more than usual. They may initially pace the perimeter of the enclosure frantically. Within a day or two of egg laying I've observed females slowly walking around potential nesting sites, continually sniffing at the ground and in the case of the Hermann's sometimes scratching at the ground in certain spots with their front claws and then sniffing. Females of both species will often stay completely away from other females in the group during this time also. I have also seen female Hermann's sit very near or on top of a site they have decided to use as a nest site and actually chase off other females. This happens with one dominate female that I have regularly and occasionally I've seen this actions more mildly with other females too.
Nesting may take place in the early morning, early evening and even into the early night. I've rarely ever had one nest mid day, probably because of increased heat. Most of mine usually nest in the very late afternoon closer to early evening. 4-7 pm here. I think alot of the timing probably has to do with the temperatures, sunlight and how the enclosures are situated so other people may have very different experiences than I do. My enclosures are on a about a 15% grade, south facing. They get very hot throughout the entire day but the sun starts disappearing behind the trees and mountain to the west starting around 5:30-6 pm.
I've had females nest right next to each other at the same time, but it's very unusual. Each usually has a different, preferred spot. But much of that also has to do with the choice of optimum nesting sites that they have within their enclosure. Nesting here can take anywhere from under an hour from start to finish to as long as 2-3 hours. I've also had females start a nest and find them sleeping in that spot well after dark although that again is very unusual.
I'm gone at work all day myself. During prime nesting season and other times when I see a female acting as though she wants to nest, I check the enclosures immediately upon getting home. If one is nesting I just make a mental note of where she is within the enclosure and leave her alone. Once done I go out and carefully dig the eggs up using a plastic spoon and a small paint brush (to gently brush away dirt). If I suspect that a female has nested when I was not around and able to see where I carefully search the enclosure to look for flat spots and disturbed dirt. There are two types of flat spots. One is where the female's body was lying flat on the ground while she was depositing eggs and after she was completely done and was resting. An indication of this is usually flattened plants, grass, etc... The second type of flat spot is the one left by females that scrape the top of the nesting site flat and compact it. Not all females do this. Some females will do just the opposite and "rough" up the area to camoflage it. These females will also sometimes leave two small curved ridges of dirt where they were pulling dirt in from the sides to cover the nest. Usually these curved ridges are very hard to detect.
If you don't witness the actual nesting, the whole thing can be very much like a treasure hunt!
A video or time lapse camera is a great idea! That would work for me too if my enclosures weren't so far from an electrical source.

 

[Zouave]

Great thread and the manufacturer of the Plot Stalker has some cool gear! iiinfraaaaareeeeeed :drool: http://www.moultriefeeders.com/productdetail.aspx?id=mfh-dgs-m100 lol so cool

good luck and hope you upload the videos for us.

 

[Tccarolina]

GBTortoises,
I thought I'd always read nesting was in the late morning. Thanks for your very helpful info. I can scan for nesting tortoises right after work and spot check through the evening, like I do for my box turtles. Mornings are cool here, in the 60's usually, so I hope evenings will be what they choose! My tortoises tend to drink in the late morning when their rock bowls get dripped in to.
What time of year should I expect clutches, if I'm keeping them outdoors all year? May through July, like my box turtles? I know some people get eggs much earlier, but I don't know how they keep their animals.
Zouave,
I haven't got one yet, but they have a solar panel that keeps it charged.
Both together from amazon is 152.06. Seems like the perfect thing for tortoise pen monitoring! You'd catch who's been breeding, egg laying, unwanted visitors, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ILNMIY/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DEZ26Y/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
I read this review that isn't so great.
http://www.chasingame.com/index.php?id=199
I've thought about getting something like this for the box turtle pen for some time now. But this is the first product that seems like it might fit the bill. My box turtles lay all in the same location, and if the tortoises follow suit with a "nesting ground", it would make good sense. I'd have to have 2 to make it all work, but it would be nice to be gone overnight in June, and not wonder if I lost a nest by doing so! Plus, I want to know who nested, if I find eggs randomly. Not sure if this camera will take clear enough pictures to id who's nesting.

 

[Zouave]

With the right software (probably some opensource stuff out there) i'm betting that a $25 webcam could do the same if not better ...... minus the weather proofing and infrared ofc. lol It's those extra features that really sell it. although i would go with some rechargeable AA batteries rather than the solar panel.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Steve:


Its always been a crap shoot with me. I just happen to be walking by and see a nest being dug or built.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Not easy! Your camera idea sounds like your answer.

 

[GBtortoises]

Most of mine nest in the early-mid evening, 4-7 pm but there are always a few that will nest in the morning or more rarely, mid-day. But again, much of that may be determined by the climate & environment that they're in. I don't believe that every tortoise of the same species acts the same regardless of where it's being kept. I'm certain that a Hermann's tortoise here where I live in the Northeast is going to have a different routine than one being kept in Southern California which may be different from one kept in Texas which may be different from one being kept in North Carolina and so on. Depending upon your climate, yours may have different pre-nesting habits than mine do.
I can only offer what I have observed mine doing here where I live, which is also the only environment that I have ever kept them in.
I think the absolute key to learning your tortoises behavior is simple hands off, non-interferring observation. I've spent (and continue to spend) hours just watching them, without interferring by feeding, cleaning or doing anything. It's suprising how much individual and group activities, routines and heirarchy status you can learn by just sitting back and watching.
It beats sitting in front of a computer and it's a good excuse to pop open a cold one and put your feet up too!