Sulcata questions

[tinytopaz]

Hi everyone! Its been awhile since Ive been here but I have found that I am needing advise. I have recently changed up my tort indoor enclosure (I am from SF bay area). I added more fake plants (we already learned they are not edible!) There is also a new hide that is a glass tank turned on its side and full of hay that I mist in the morning. The heat light is toward the back of the table so there is a warm end (85-90 ish) and a cool end (mid 70's). There is now a new hide in the hot end that they can go into and borrow into the orchard grass hay, with a flag stone ramp they can climb to sun on.
I started out with my beautiful Leopard (Squirt) almost 2 years ago. I researched for 8 months and had my outdoor pen perfect before bringing him home. (Outdoor pen is 35' x 26'). I later ended up adopting a poor sulcata from a fish store that had it near death in a 1 gallon tank feeding it dog food. I kow they should be separated later on, but for now thats what Ive got.
I have been feeding them Spring Mix mostly with a handful of Orchard grass hay nd Timothy Hay. Grape Leaves, Strawberry leaves, dandilions, you name it from the garden (all researched and approved). My question is, does the Leopards shell look like it is pyramiding, and what have I done wrong if it is? They have a UV-B bulb (2 actually), and a basking bulb. They run for about 8 hours a day and they get real sun in the warmer months. Have I missed anything needed to form an opinion?? Any advice is wanted and appreciated!

 

[Yvonne G]

It's a beautiful enclosure, however, it seems dry to me. What is the substrate? You can't really get hay as wet as the sulcata needs to not pyramid, because it molds. And yes, your leopard is pyramided. Get rid of the hay and replace it with something that can be wetted. Sphagnum moss in the hide would be good.

 

[wellington]

The humidity needs to be 80%. Like emysemys said, get rid of the hay replace it with what she already suggested or coconut coir works really well too. Check out Toms threads below in my post. They are all great for raising both leopards and sulcatas.

 

[tinytopaz]

The humidity needs to be 80%. Like emysemys said, get rid of the hay replace it with what she already suggested or coconut coir works really well too. Check out Toms threads below in my post. They are all great for raising both leopards and sulcatas.

Awesome, thanks!! I meant to get more Sphagnum while I was out today, but I forgot so I will get it tomorrow. Is the pyramiding something that I can reverse with the moss and the right humidity? In theory he will munch on the hay, right?

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It's a beautiful enclosure, however, it seems dry to me. What is the substrate? You can't really get hay as wet as the sulcata needs to not pyramid, because it molds. And yes, your leopard is pyramided. Get rid of the hay and replace it with something that can be wetted. Sphagnum moss in the hide would be good.

Lets see, the overall substrate is top soil with a 50/50 mix of playsand. Probably more soil than sand, I didnt want the sand to mix in with the food and cause damage. I spray them down every morning, but I know the sphagnum retains moisture better. They have since ground the last chunks of it into the soil.

 

[wellington]

Sorry, no, you can not reverse the pyramiding that has already happened. However, if you get the humidity where it should be, you can start to grow the new growth in smooth. Hopefully, when s/he is fully grown, the pyramiding will be less noticeable.
That's what I'm hoping. Mine is pyramided too. But took Toms advice with the humidity and the new grow is coming in smoother.

 

[tinytopaz]

Sorry, no, you can not reverse the pyramiding that has already happened. However, if you get the humidity where it should be, you can start to grow the new growth in smooth. Hopefully, when s/he is fully grown, the pyramiding will be less noticeable.
That's what I'm hoping. Mine is pyramided too. But took Toms advice with the humidity and the new grow is coming in smoother.

Thank you for the advice and hope! I have spent so many hours and days researching, and I feel a sense of failure by Squirt if he ends up disfigured by my missing something. I am responsible for his health and well-being, I dont want to mess that up!! Cricket the Sulcata is round as can be, and she was real bad when I first got her, her shell was squishy too. Sunlight has helped her out, so I will pile on the Shagnum and coir tomorrow and get the humidity up to 80%. Ill post new pics soon and see if it meets approval from the pros!

 

[mainey34]

There are other types of substrate that you can use. Use what you are comfortable with. I have found cypress mulch works well..it holds humidity. How old are your torts? If they are already 2 years old, really the pyramiding isnt going to go away. You can stop it from happening now. But keeping your enclosure at 80% humidity is for hatchlings. Spray your torts down several times a day. Keep your humidity up in your enclosure. Have you been soaking your torts? Soak them 1-2 times a week..

 

[Yellow Turtle]

You really need to improve your humidity. That won't reverse the pyramided shells, but at least you will have smooth new growth. Try to find more threads of pyramiding and you will get the idea what to do to your torts' enclosure.

 

[tinytopaz]

You really need to improve your humidity. That won't reverse the pyramided shells, but at least you will have smooth new growth. Try to find more threads of pyramiding and you will get the idea what to do to your torts' enclosure.

So I improved my torts hide box. I cut a hole in top of it and put a tube going from a humidifier to the box, and I stuffed the box with sphagnum moss. They are both drawn to it and I turned the humidifier up just enough to create a bit of moisture in the air. It holds a humidity level of about 42% now. Is that about right for the hide box? I keep the ceramic heat emitter on, aimed at the box and there is a piece of granit on top of the box so it keeps it nice and warm for them at night.

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There are other types of substrate that you can use. Use what you are comfortable with. I have found cypress mulch works well..it holds humidity. How old are your torts? If they are already 2 years old, really the pyramiding isnt going to go away. You can stop it from happening now. But keeping your enclosure at 80% humidity is for hatchlings. Spray your torts down several times a day. Keep your humidity up in your enclosure. Have you been soaking your torts? Soak them 1-2 times a week..

I do soak the torts once per week. There have been times though where I realize they did not get their soaking. I feel awful about that too. What age do I stop soaking them? Just when they outgrow the sink? Mine soak in the bathroom sink, its big and has a flat bottom to it.

 

[lori12386]

So I improved my torts hide box. I cut a hole in top of it and put a tube going from a humidifier to the box, and I stuffed the box with sphagnum moss. They are both drawn to it and I turned the humidifier up just enough to create a bit of moisture in the air. It holds a humidity level of about 42% now. Is that about right for the hide box? I keep the ceramic heat emitter on, aimed at the box and there is a piece of granit on top of the box so it keeps it nice and warm for them at night.

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42% is still WAY to low for a humid hide... Even for the entire enclosure it is way to low. I keep mine at 70-80%. I use a pond fogger inside a tupperware bowl in mine. It works great.

 

[tinytopaz]

So I improved my torts hide box. I cut a hole in top of it and put a tube going from a humidifier to the box, and I stuffed the box with sphagnum moss. They are both drawn to it and I turned the humidifier up just enough to create a bit of moisture in the air. It holds a humidity level of about 42% now. Is that about right for the hide box? I keep the ceramic heat emitter on, aimed at the box and there is a piece of granit on top of the box so it keeps it nice and warm for them at night.

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42% is still WAY to low for a humid hide... Even for the entire enclosure it is way to low. I keep mine at 70-80%. I use a pond fogger inside a tupperware bowl in mine. It works great.

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What a fantastic idea. Ill have to look into that tomorrow (payday and all). So Just get the center of the enclosure at aboout 80% and all should be well? I took an old book shelf and turned it on its back, thats my enclosure. Do I need to rig some sort of top for it to keep the humidity in somewhat?

 

[lori12386]

So I improved my torts hide box. I cut a hole in top of it and put a tube going from a humidifier to the box, and I stuffed the box with sphagnum moss. They are both drawn to it and I turned the humidifier up just enough to create a bit of moisture in the air. It holds a humidity level of about 42% now. Is that about right for the hide box? I keep the ceramic heat emitter on, aimed at the box and there is a piece of granit on top of the box so it keeps it nice and warm for them at night.

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42% is still WAY to low for a humid hide... Even for the entire enclosure it is way to low. I keep mine at 70-80%. I use a pond fogger inside a tupperware bowl in mine. It works great.

---

What a fantastic idea. Ill have to look into that tomorrow (payday and all). So Just get the center of the enclosure at aboout 80% and all should be well? I took an old book shelf and turned it on its back, thats my enclosure. Do I need to rig some sort of top for it to keep the humidity in somewhat?

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A top would help a lot as well. I have 3/4 of mine cover.

 

[tinytopaz]

Awesome, thankyou for the advice. Tomorrow I will figure out a way to cover about 3/4 of my setup and I will improve the amount of humidity as well. Their comfort and health is very important to me. Thankyou again for the great ideas, I really appreciate it!!

 

[tinytopaz]

I adjusted my setup for my torts some more. I created a new top so I could better direct my lights and get maximum coverage with the uvb bulb. I also put 2 round trays under the topsoil and filled them with water to create a nice swampy feel and covered the whole wet side with soaked sphagnum moss. I emptied my water bottle on it twice to get it good and wet. The hide box is so humid a cloud comes out of it, but the torts dont seem to mind it to much, they still sleep in there. Its a warm cloud, I still have a heat emitter aimed right on it and wet moss on top of the box too. Im going to get a pond fogger (right after I post this actually) and put it right in the middle of the whole set up. I am going to get a good humidity reader too, mine is digital but it does not seem to show that the humidity level has changed at all, going from bone dry to soaked, should have shown some change I would think. Anything else anyone can suggest???

 

[Laura]

damp is better than soaked.. make sure they stay warm... warm and wet is ok,, but cold and wet is not..

 

[tinytopaz]

Ok damp is better, got it. I am definitly making sure they stay warm, I am concerned about the wet and cold thing. I dont want to freeze them out or get them sick, they have been healthy for the 2 years that I have had them, so if they got sick it would be my fault and I dont want that!!! Thanks for the advice, I hope Im finally on my way to happy torts in the right environment.

 

[Zamric]

Has anyone mentioned to you the down side to mixing 2 or more toroise species in the same enclosure? It is not concidered a good idea for health reasons.

 

[TortoiseRN]

Has anyone mentioned to you the down side to mixing 2 or more toroise species in the same enclosure? It is not concidered a good idea for health reasons.

I was waiting for someone to mention that. Zamric makes really good point. Although husbandry for Sulcatas and Leopards is basically the same, different species are susceptible to diseases/parasites that the other may be carrying. I'm sure this post will start another Holy War.