Eastern vs Three-Toed...?

[CaliforniaDreamin]

What are the main differences between an Eastern and Three-Toed?

I'll be getting a turtle soon and the current owner says that he is an Eastern (thats what the pet store guy told him). I finally held the him today and noticed that he only has three toes on his back feet.

Long story short, I was under the impression that I was getting an EBT... now it seems it's a 3-toed. So my questions are how much different is their care and is there a way to tell for sure which type of turtle he is? (I will post a picture eventually to confirm, just didn't had my camera handy when I saw him). Helpful links always welcome.

Also... how big should this guy be right now? The current owner says that he has had him for a year. He is soo tiny though! Maybe it's normal, i'm a rookie and have no clue. I do know that he has not been getting the proper nutrition/lighting so i'm concerned about the growth rate. The turtle fits just about in the palm of my hand (& i've got small girl hands..).

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

70 views and not one reply...alrighty then.

thanks anyway. ill go to another forum :/

 

[Yvonne G]

Sorry, but without a picture, we're just blowin' smoke.

 

[samsmom]

I had both so I might could help if I knew what they looked like!

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Okay. I will try and make it over to their house tomorrow so that I can take a picture. I'm sorry if I sounded frustrated.. I have been going through a lot lately and i'm trying to hurry and get this tank set up so the little dude doesn't have to be stuck in a crappy home with no heat or proper nutrition.

In either case, I think I have the information I needed. Someone on another forum said that the care is the same since they come from the same parts of the US. They said that the two types often interbred and that the only box turtle who has slightly different care is the Ornate Box Turtle.

That was pretty much what I kept finding on the internet too. I just wanted to double check because i'm very insistent on providing the best home I can.

Anywho, I will still post pictures here to get opinions as i'm pretty sure this is a decent forum.

 

[diaboliqueturtle]

The care requirements are the same for both sub-species. The easterns are more colourful, while the 3 toed have a lighter plain shell. In my totally biased opinion, as I've never had easterns, the 3 toed has the most outgoing personality This might help you know what you're getting, it's my 10 1/2 months old 3 toed baby and she's almost 2 1/2" long.

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[GeoTerraTestudo]

70 views and not one reply...alrighty then.

thanks anyway. ill go to another forum :/

Hmm ... not the best attitude, but I'll provide you with some information anyway.

The two subspecies are quite similar, and even intergrade in part of their range. Obviously, easterns have four toes on their back feet, and three-toeds have only three. Easterns often have more color on their shell, forelimbs, neck, and head. They also get to be a bit bigger.

As for habitat, the easterns range farther north, and the three-toeds farther south. So, the eastern seems to be a bit more cold tolerant, and the three-toed a bit more heat tolerant. Being from the Eastern US, eastern boxies are more often found in moist woodland, while three-toeds can be found in humid grasslands (not as dry as those of the ornate box turtle). So, the eastern is generally found in wetter environments. In practice, though, care for the two subspecies is essentially the same.

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/midorcas/research/Contribute/box turtle/boxinfo.htm

 

[surie_the_tortoise]

sometimes people dont always like to respond for some reason on here. from what i hear the 3 or 4 toes isnt a final answer that sometims eastern have 3 toes and the other way around . as said above normally the 3 toed are more of a brown dull shell while the eastern can be bright orange even in some way the females. i have a baby eastern and his personality is very strong fearless little guy/girl either one from what im finding out would be a great addition . seemingly the only real difference is the colors and normally the 3 toes vs 4 . hope this helps if have any more questions feel free to private message me and i will help the best i can. just got my first box turtle so still learning myself .

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Thank you to everyone who has made an effort to help me with this. I am overwhelmed with a ton of things right now and all i'm trying to do is get this turtle out of it's environment so I can provide it with a better life.

No offense GeoTerraTestudo, but if you don't like my attitude then you don't need to help me or the turtle. I thank you for providing me with information and will remember it however I feel your comment about the attitude you think I had wasn't really necessary. I wasn't getting help, so I simply stated that I would go else where and made a disappointed face. I wasn't being rude, I was just sad that 70 people had looked at this thread and not one of them stopped to help. My questions did not seem difficult to answer considering I am presenting them to a group of individuals who have experience/knowledge with turtles. I figured this particular group of people may just want to help me, and actually show some concern.

Anyway, I am doing my best. Sorry if i'm not a bundle of joy.
Does this help? Do I seem happier now?

 

[lynnedit]

I can't help because I don't keep box turtles, although used to. Things have changed!

Try to move on and be patient, you will get answers eventually. Sounds like the care is fairly similar, at least to get you started.

Take a look at the Species specific section on box turtles, and also try to post a picture of your turtle so people can help you figure out which one you have, just so you know.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Thank you to everyone who has made an effort to help me with this. I am overwhelmed with a ton of things right now and all i'm trying to do is get this turtle out of it's environment so I can provide it with a better life.

No offense GeoTerraTestudo, but if you don't like my attitude then you don't need to help me or the turtle. I thank you for providing me with information and will remember it however I feel your comment about the attitude you think I had wasn't really necessary. I wasn't getting help, so I simply stated that I would go else where and made a disappointed face. I wasn't being rude, I was just sad that 70 people had looked at this thread and not one of them stopped to help. My questions did not seem difficult to answer considering I am presenting them to a group of individuals who have experience/knowledge with turtles. I figured this particular group of people may just want to help me, and actually show some concern.

Anyway, I am doing my best. Sorry if i'm not a bundle of joy.
Does this help? Do I seem happier now?

In this age of instant communication, it's easy to get impatient when we don't get an immediate response to our queries. While it's true that TFO has the highest internet traffic of any online tortoise community, it can still take time for people to respond. It could be that knowledgeable people hadn't seen your thread yet; I didn't see it until this morning. Maybe those 70 people who had viewed your thread did not feel qualified to respond. After all, sometimes people want to advise, and at other times they want to learn. Another possibility is that those who were knowledgeable simply needed a little more time to respond or to organize their thoughts. Next time, instead of making comments that come across as snippy, please try being a little more patient instead.

Anyway, I think you'll be able to tell with some confidence whether you have an eastern, a three-toed, or an intergrade. But again, although they may look a little different, and although their natural habitats differ somewhat, their captive care is basically the same.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Thanks again for the help, I really wasn't trying to sound snippy with my original post. I understand what you are saying and I did take that into consideration I just don't have much patience when it comes to animal care/rescue. I want it done asap, it's already been longer than I normally wait (but like i said- so much going on in my life right now it's ridiculous).

I have one more question- what is the best website to purchase a nice uv light? I don't have anything to connect the bulb too so I'd need to whole set up. I could just get one from the pet store but i'm sure an online purchase would be a little cheaper. The guy at the pet store said it would run me about $70.

 

[surie_the_tortoise]

ebay is never a bad place to look

 

[lynnedit]

I like Amazon too especially if you, or someone you know, has prime for free shipping.

I do know that people with box turtles often use something like the Reptisun 5.0 tube fluorescent bulb (length determined by your enclosure size length) with a basking light (even a house bulb) for heat/warming up toward one end. Both set on a timer.
Good UV, but more filtered.
Depending on your background house heat, you might choose to use a CHE bulb night and/or day (heat but no light and can be set on a thermostat), over a hide.
Lots of plants, some sphagnum moss for moisture. A good water dish (ceramic pot base) that you will clean daily.

Look up Terryo's enclosures, she has had box turtles for years, both hatchlings and adults, several species.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

I like Amazon too especially if you, or someone you know, has prime for free shipping.

I do know that people with box turtles often use something like the Reptisun 5.0 tube fluorescent bulb (length determined by your enclosure size length) with a basking light (even a house bulb) for heat/warming up toward one end. Both set on a timer.
Good UV, but more filtered.
Depending on your background house heat, you might choose to use a CHE bulb night and/or day (heat but no light and can be set on a thermostat), over a hide.
Lots of plants, some sphagnum moss for moisture. A good water dish (ceramic pot base) that you will clean daily.

Look up Terryo's enclosures, she has had box turtles for years, both hatchlings and adults, several species.

I keep hearing about the Reptisun 5.0 tube fluorescent bulb, more so than others, so I believe this is what I will end up going with. Is there any potential dangers with getting the 10.0 instead? One person has told me that as long as you provide lots of shaded areas it's fine. The reason she uses the 10.0 is because it is more powerful therefore resembles what they would get out in nature.

CHE - Ceramic heat emitters? These will produce the heat without the lighting, correct?

The temperature in my house is not stable, so I will definitely need to provide the enclosure with it's own sources of heat both during the day and night. Which sucks, there goes my electric bill.. LoL. Setting it up with a thermostat seems like a great idea.

I am pretty sure I had a few other questions but I have gotten side tracked a million times while trying to post this, so I will just come back to it later I will also check out the pictures you told me to from Terryos enclosures.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I use a ZooMed ReptiSun 10.0 48" fluorescent bulb for illumination and UVA/UVB, and a ZooMed 150 Watt ceramic heat emitter (CHE) for basking, both only during the daytime. I bought them at a local pet store, but you could get them through Amazon, Carolina Pet Supply, the online outlets for PetCo and PetSmart, or other online stores.

BTW - I once tried the ExoTerra ReptiGlo 10.0 UVB fluorescent bulb (I bought it at a pet expo), but apparently this light either frightened my tortoises or hurt their eyes, because they stayed hidden most of the time for the whole week I had it on. I could tell that the light was different: more bluish and less sunny-looking. So, I returned it and went back to the ZooMed ReptiSun 10.0 instead, and have stayed with it every since.

You really have to be careful with some of these UVB lamps. If your tortoise is showing signs of hiding, watery or puffy eyes, etc, then the light could be harming its eyes. Reptiles can recover from this if it's only for a short time, but prolonged exposure to this can cause permanent damage or blindness.

 

[jojodesca]

The care requirements are the same for both sub-species. The easterns are more colourful, while the 3 toed have a lighter plain shell. In my totally biased opinion, as I've never had easterns, the 3 toed has the most outgoing personality This might help you know what you're getting, it's my 10 1/2 months old 3 toed baby and she's almost 2 1/2" long.

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What a face!

 

[thelub]

The difference between a 5.0 and a 10.0 is how far the light will be from the turtle. If you have a deep enclosure where the light will be over 18" from the turtle you want a 10.0 and anything less a 5.0 will work.

I was a total turtle noob when I got mine and this site has been by far the most helpful in getting me the information and pointers I needed to provide my turtle a healthy happy home.

 

[terryo]

I have found that my Three Toed's like to spend a little more time in the pond than the Eastern's do, otherwise they seem exactly the same in temperament and personality.
What size is your enclosure? All mine are outside, except for a juvenile three toed that's inside for the Winter now. She is in a 40 gal breeder tank, with lots of plants, a large water dish, and a flat feeding stone. I also put in cuttle bone. I only use a long 5.0 UVB which is in a fixture for a ten gal. tank, with a 60 wt. heat emitter. If your room is warm, you won't need the heat at all. I keep my house at about 68...I hate heat. If you have a hatchling, then you definitely need the heat emitter. I don't use a basking light, just the UVB. Rarely do I ever see a hatchling or juvenile sitting under the heat emitter. They usually eat, sit in the water dish for a while and then dig under again. Outside I always see the adults sitting in the sun basking.
If you have any other questions, I'll try to help.