Flaky and cracked tortoise shell

[pojothetort]

My tortoise Pojo, an Indian star, rescued from the desert, has a cracked shell from when he was rescued. we found when its shell was fixed with some putty, which is coming off a lot, but also the major concern is that its shell keeps getting dryer and flaky and chips a lot. what can I do to make his shell better ?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

As far as the flakiness goes, @YvonneG has used cold pressed extra virgin coconut oil to hydrate tortoise shells. Make sure that they have humid micro climates in their enclosure and apply the oil after soaking.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Also, I think @EppsDynasty can share some tips on how to make strong shell supports.

The top scutes chipping off are probably the result of damage - often after serious shell injury keratine plates fall off the underlying bone. Unless you see any liquid coming off from under the scutes this is probably not a concern.

And I will tag @Yvonne G (there was a typo in the nickname in previous post)

 

[pojothetort]

As far as the flakiness goes, @YvonneG has used cold pressed extra virgin coconut oil to hydrate tortoise shells. Make sure that they have humid micro climates in their enclosure and apply the oil after soaking.

does it not cause fungus under the shell? Also his shell has significantly flattened from the base with prominent small cracks as in the picture, is it normal?

 

[pojothetort]

Also, I think @EppsDynasty can share some tips on how to make strong shell supports.

The top scutes chipping off are probably the result of damage - often after serious shell injury keratine plates fall off the underlying bone. Unless you see any liquid coming off from under the scutes this is probably not a concern.

And I will tag @Yvonne G (there was a typo in the nickname in previous post)

There's only cracks and chipping, which concerns me cause it has gotten worse over time. Thanks for tagging them.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

There's only cracks and chipping, which concerns me cause it has gotten worse over time. Thanks for tagging them.

This can be a first stage - edges of keratin plates are getting loose before the whole plate will fall off.
Can you tell a bit more how do you keep your tortoise? Does it live outside or inside, what diet and such?

 

[pojothetort]

There's only cracks and chipping, which concerns me cause it has gotten worse over time

This can be a first stage - edges of keratin plates are getting loose before the whole plate will fall off.
Can you tell a bit more how do you keep your tortoise? Does it live outside or inside, what diet and such?

he was in a damp substrate for some time but now I'm keeping him dry because of the shell rot kind of situation, his diet is mainly vegetables, he lives mostly indoors

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Can you post a photo of the enclosure? What do you use as substrate? Does he have access to natural sunlight or UVB lamp?

 

[pojothetort]

Can you post a photo of the enclosure? What do you use as substrate? Does he have access to natural sunlight or UVB lamp?

I keep him in my lawn only and take him inside at night

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok, good. He gets enough UVB from the sun to absorb calcium for bone growth.

Does his plastron (bottom shell) moves when you press? If so, you will need to make supports like described here: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/white-flesh.208231/page-7#post-2089575

As he is active and eating well, no liquid coming from under the scutes - it doesn't look like a shell rot to me. He needs to be well hydrated and you can soak him in clean warm water every 2-3 days for 15-30 minutes.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Alex and the Redfoot ...Thank you for the heads up.
@pojothetort .... We will need a detailed idea of what exactly is going on. Enclosure temperatures (overnight low, cool side and hot side) substrates the tort is kept on. As said, when there is damage the keratin will come away from the bone. New keratin (should) grow under the damaged area replacing it when it falls off. It is hard to think "rot" is happening without there being a very high amount of humidity. As for "flaky".... A tortoise shell is keratin over bone, the keratin can become dehydrated and damaged. For this the solution is coconut oil (Cold Pressed and Unrefined) rub downs, and then 30-45 minutes later wiping it off. If you do not wipe it off it will further damage the shell. The coconut oil has a high amount of Lauric Acid, this is what allows the Keratin to "Absorb" the oil. Without Lauric acid oils just coat and plug the Keratin making the issue even worse.

 

[Yvonne G]

Once the blood supply to the bone under the keratin has been interrupted the keratin eventually dies and flakes off. There's nothing you can do about or for it. It's nature. BUT in the meantime new bone and keratin is growing UNDER that dead, white bone. It takes a very long time, maybe even a year, but eventually, as the new bone grows larger than the dead bone the dead bone pops off and you're left with a brand new shell. But because that new shell didn't grow in increments like the rings of a tree, it's going to look different from the old shell.

Don't pick at it. Just let nature take its course.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Once the blood supply to the bone under the keratin has been interrupted the keratin eventually dies and flakes off. There's nothing you can do about or for it. It's nature. BUT in the meantime new bone and keratin is growing UNDER that dead, white bone. It takes a very long time, maybe even a year, but eventually, as the new bone grows larger than the dead bone the dead bone pops off and you're left with a brand new shell. But because that new shell didn't grow in increments like the rings of a tree, it's going to look different from the old shell.

Don't pick at it. Just let nature take its course.

She's the expert...

 

[Yvonne G]

She's the expert...

I typed the above before I read the complete thread. I'm not contradicting anything Epps wrote. I use coconut oil. We both gave good advice.

 

[pojothetort]

So what shall I to do now, athlete's foot cream, coconut oil or just soak and wait, my concern is that his shell is really deteriorating as its visible in the picture, ants are often feeding on the bottom? @Yvonne G @EppsDynasty @Alex and the Redfoot

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

1. Ants are no good. Can you keep your tortoise indoors for a while (a week or two)? If you can make a temporary enclosure for him - that would be great.
2. Antifungal creme (athlete's foot creme) won't help here as I understand.
3. Coconut oil is probably useless as well - something's happening below the scutes and in the seams.
4. Soaking should help to clean up the dirt and such. Use a soft bristle toothbrush to gently scrub off the dirt and debris. Also, please make new photos in the natural daylight (both top and bottom of the shell).
4. Next, get some chlorhexidine from pharmacy and apply twice a day to damaged areas with a toothbrush, keep for 5 minutes then rinse with clean water and dry with a paper towel.

Try to find a vet experienced with tortoises for a consultation (probably, can be done online but seeing live tortoise is better in your case).

 

[pojothetort]

Ok, good. He gets enough UVB from the sun to absorb calcium for bone growth.

Does his plastron (bottom shell) moves when you press? If so, you will need to make supports like described here: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/white-flesh.208231/page-7#post-2089575

As he is active and eating well, no liquid coming from under the scutes - it doesn't look like a shell rot to me. He needs to be well hydrated and you can soak him in clean warm water every 2-3 days for 15-30 minutes

the shell remains at place its just the upper layer of scutes have become very cracky and flaky also the bottom looks porous

 

[pojothetort]

Does

the shell remains at place its just the upper layer of scutes have become very cracky and flaky also the bottom looks porousView attachment 371799

providing this picture of the bottom for better insights of the situation, is it normal or a matter of concern, how can I make it better?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I would call for help from @Yvonne G and @zovick (I don't like the dark spots around cracks but not knowledgeable to tell if it's normal).

Did you have any X-rays of Pojo?

 

[pojothetort]

I would call for help from @Yvonne G and @zovick (I don't like the dark spots around cracks but not knowledgeable to tell if it's normal).

Did you have any X-rays of Pojo?

no