Fussy pancake baby

[Tortoise]

Hi
I have a pancake baby that is picky with food.This species is new to me but I think its needs are being met with diet offered and his environment.
I am offering dandelion, plantain, grass, hay, sow thistle, lettuce, portulaca, shaved cacti, hibiscus leaves, weed flowers too.

The baby will try most things but only 1 bite and move on. Never devouring anything in quantity.
the weight gain is small, I personally feel its not eating enough.
I just got mazuri for the first time.My redfoots and hermanns love it but pancake baby is ignoring this too.

It gets soaked regularly, has rock hides, mvb for heat and UV and temps are all in correct ranges.Constant access to water dish too.
Its also been out in the sun on ideal weather days.
From here on we will be only in the house however due to season changing.

I had 2 other babies with this one but sadly they died-I suspect the cause was partly influenced by environment provided before I bought them

Any suggestions on normal eating behaviour of this species appreciated.
I have since had an opportunity to buy adults and wonder if this would have been a better option or if these babies just are not typical in their energy levels and appetite.
I would describe them as lethargic generally speaking.

Thanks

 

[mrlax]

I'd like to try and help, but I'm admittedly no expert. Our pancake is 3.5 months old, we have had it for about 2 months, and this is the first tortoise I have owned in nearly 15 years. It has gone from 24 to about 41 grams in that time. I'm not sure if this is a normal rate of growth, but we've been encouraged. It eats very well, and its habits are 'regular'. It has mid-morning activity, eats, then mid-day rest, then afternoon activity and second mealtime, then goes to sleep...The routine is pretty consistent, and only really changes if we move the enclosure furnishings around, in which case he explores a lot more to find out his new comfort zones.

The bulk of the diet is really #1 wheat grass- store bought and trimmed immediately prior to feeding. We have a few of these little planters (about $2 ea- last a LONG time...) and we trim and rotate them so they grow back. We put grass in the meal EVERY day. #2 is dandelion greens, and #3 kale and #4 arugula - at least one of these is offered within the meal every day, but the proportion is always about 1/2+ wheat grass. We also use moistened and ground up Zoo-Med Grassland tortoise pellets on every meal and they are well-accepted. We also use a bit of spineless cactus, shaved carrots, and sometimes zucchini, but these are offered at most once a week, and as a small proportion of the overall meal (1/4 or less). I chop everything up and mix the meal components every day. I also sprinkle a bit of blended timothy hay/alfalfa and indoor reptile calcium supplement with D3 on each meal.

The breeder we bought this guy from told us that routine is VERY important for hatchlings- they like things to be the same, at basically the same time, same place, every day. We have found this to be 100% accurate. In the mid morning- the tortoise leaves his little hide-out, and we place him in his 'bath' soon thereafter. Within 5-10 min, he poops in his bath, we clean it out, give him a final few minutes of clean water rinse, and then when bath time is over- he is placed in the middle of his enclosure, with a plate of his food nearby. He then makes a bee-line to the food, pokes around it, and then starts eating. He probably prefers dandelions to some other things, but really eats everything. Some days we hold out certain items, and give ONLY wheat grass- and he pokes around and then eventually starts eating it.

Anyways, my suggestion is that the Zoo Med pellets will probably be very well accepted as they are a mix of a bunch of different things. I'm sure some component of that will be of interest. You can then take that and smear it on other food offerings and they will probably become more interesting too.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Tortoise]

Hi
Thanks so much for a detailed reply-that is very helpful.I will source out the Zoo med food and also I think I may have a packet of the wheat grass seeds.(we are too rural for shop grown wheat grass here
Is that the grass that the cats like to nibble on too?

Your growth rate is much better than mine.
Mine has gained 10g in 4mths from 15g to 25g currently.It was freshly hatched at 15g I suspect.
I will try and grow that wheat grass right away here and keep offering a variety of weeds until freeze up.I suspect they only got romaine lettuce prior to coming to me which also doesn't help.
Mine will take a little fresh shaved opuntia pad and clover too.
I have managed to grow the opuntia all yr round now so it is always very fresh.(shaved off plant with potato peeler as needed)
I have some exo terra complete food I can try too that I only recently found.(it says for adults though specifically?I wonder why as the pellets are small and mostly we do for babies what we do for adults with the diet)

Thanks again for the quick response and tip-I appreciate it.
Louise

I'd like to try and help, but I'm admittedly no expert. Our pancake is 3.5 months old, we have had it for about 2 months, and this is the first tortoise I have owned in nearly 15 years. It has gone from 24 to about 41 grams in that time. I'm not sure if this is a normal rate of growth, but we've been encouraged. It eats very well, and its habits are 'regular'. It has mid-morning activity, eats, then mid-day rest, then afternoon activity and second mealtime, then goes to sleep...The routine is pretty consistent, and only really changes if we move the enclosure furnishings around, in which case he explores a lot more to find out his new comfort zones.

The bulk of the diet is really #1 wheat grass- store bought and trimmed immediately prior to feeding. We have a few of these little planters (about $2 ea- last a LONG time...) and we trim and rotate them so they grow back. We put grass in the meal EVERY day. #2 is dandelion greens, and #3 kale and #4 arugula - at least one of these is offered within the meal every day, but the proportion is always about 1/2+ wheat grass. We also use moistened and ground up Zoo-Med Grassland tortoise pellets on every meal and they are well-accepted. We also use a bit of spineless cactus, shaved carrots, and sometimes zucchini, but these are offered at most once a week, and as a small proportion of the overall meal (1/4 or less). I chop everything up and mix the meal components every day. I also sprinkle a bit of blended timothy hay/alfalfa and indoor reptile calcium supplement with D3 on each meal.

The breeder we bought this guy from told us that routine is VERY important for hatchlings- they like things to be the same, at basically the same time, same place, every day. We have found this to be 100% accurate. In the mid morning- the tortoise leaves his little hide-out, and we place him in his 'bath' soon thereafter. Within 5-10 min, he poops in his bath, we clean it out, give him a final few minutes of clean water rinse, and then when bath time is over- he is placed in the middle of his enclosure, with a plate of his food nearby. He then makes a bee-line to the food, pokes around it, and then starts eating. He probably prefers dandelions to some other things, but really eats everything. Some days we hold out certain items, and give ONLY wheat grass- and he pokes around and then eventually starts eating it.

Anyways, my suggestion is that the Zoo Med pellets will probably be very well accepted as they are a mix of a bunch of different things. I'm sure some component of that will be of interest. You can then take that and smear it on other food offerings and they will probably become more interesting too.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[mrlax]

No problem, I hope my advice/experiences are helpful. I know how frustrating it can be to have a pet with concerns. These forums can be very helpful and there are folks out there much more experienced than I who may have better insights/advice. As for the grass- I'm not sure if this is the same as the cat products- I'm not experiences with cats. But this stuff is sold commonly in places like Wholefoods and organic grocery stores. People here (San Francisco) make juices out of it. I think it tastes nasty but the tortoise loves it. Go figure. I have seen nice enclosures on this forum where someone actually had dug in a patch and had the grass rooted/planted in the terrarium, so the tortoise could graze on it. Pretty cool...

 

[EKLC]

you might want to try pumpkin or baby food soaks to get your tortoise on the right track

 

[Tortoise]

new food tried today-some small pieces of fresh pumpkin-there are 4 or 5 baby sized nibble marks on a tiny piece.The baby is not interested in mazuri or red stick etc.(I ground them to powder to mix with shaved cacti-baby sniffed and walked away)
Still soaking regularly and urates are being produced and occasional poop-wish this little guy would pick up its appetite though-we will keep trying.
Are adults normally like this or is this fussiness more of a hatchling problem?
This and the other 2 that died were mixed with another species before I got them so I may be battling with that too-its hard to know what normal is not having had this species before.I can get adults fairly easily but I'm kinda nervous with the troubles I have had with these youngsters.

Any thoughts on normal babies and adults in regard to eating.I am ok with shyness I expect that for sure.
Thanks

 

[mrlax]

Hi there!
I have had some good luck with our almost 4 month old eating well-mixed stuff. I've noticed him picking and choosing certain leaves that he prefers when they are sticking out- such as dandelion greens amidst grass, arugula, and others. So what I have started doing is using a mini-food processor and give stuff a few whirls- not so it is completely broken down, but so that it is well mixed, and he'll eat bites of several components as he moves around. Latest well-accepted mix was (in order of % of content)- wheat grass, dandelion greens, 4-5 zoo med grassland tortoise pellets (moistened), kale, arugula, small amount of alfalfa to add fiber & a small amount of indoor calcium powder w/D3. He ate it VERY well yesterday, then again today. Today I placed small cactus cubes in it, and he went and ate those FIRST, then chewed up everything else!

new food tried today-some small pieces of fresh pumpkin-there are 4 or 5 baby sized nibble marks on a tiny piece.The baby is not interested in mazuri or red stick etc.(I ground them to powder to mix with shaved cacti-baby sniffed and walked away)
Still soaking regularly and urates are being produced and occasional poop-wish this little guy would pick up its appetite though-we will keep trying.
Are adults normally like this or is this fussiness more of a hatchling problem?
This and the other 2 that died were mixed with another species before I got them so I may be battling with that too-its hard to know what normal is not having had this species before.I can get adults fairly easily but I'm kinda nervous with the troubles I have had with these youngsters.

Any thoughts on normal babies and adults in regard to eating.I am ok with shyness I expect that for sure.
Thanks

 

[Tortoise]

HI
Thanks for that. I have the grassland mix on order from the US so I should get it in the next few days hopefully.
I'll try processing some food too. I used a paring knife to cut things up small but yes he will take a bite of this and that as if he is taste testing and nothing really makes the grade you can assume??HAHA
I just want to keep this little one going as losing the 2 already has been heart breaking.They all had organic fresh picked weeds from my garden, always had access to food and water, regular soak,correct temps-I still can't get over losing them as I have tried so hard to provide them with everything I can think of. I wonder if it doesn't like the MVB bulb?
Do you use an MVB or tube UV?
Thanks for the advice-I'll make up a nutritious mix here.

 

[mrlax]

I'm using the ZooMed UVB 10.0 light. I think he likes it a lot - he often goes and just lays out and basks under the light for 30-60 min at a time, once or twice a day. We use a ceramic bulb for 24hr heat- with a hot-spot around 100 and cool around 80, and averages around 85 throughout the enclosure. I've been trying to keep the humidity up as well with several spray-downs a day

 

[Tortoise]

is that an MVB bulb or Tube type?
I think my baby hides from my light mostly.He occasionally falls asleep under it but majority of time is in the shade.
I have been spraying occasionally too although it seems debatable on this species-I think in the rocky hides in the wild there must be some moisture there.

 

[mrlax]

The Zoo Med 10.0 UVB we have is a tube-light (see crappy picture attached). They are available for approx $30USD via Amazon.com. I'd say our little pancake spends 4-5hrs a day exposed to the light. It does hide a lot, and also goes back and forth between hiding and basking/eating sessions during the day...

is that an MVB bulb or Tube type?
I think my baby hides from my light mostly.He occasionally falls asleep under it but majority of time is in the shade.
I have been spraying occasionally too although it seems debatable on this species-I think in the rocky hides in the wild there must be some moisture there.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks for the reply-still struggling here with slow appetite.Its like I have a clockwork toy that keeps needing a wind up in the form of a bath or real UV.Its only 10 deg here but in a sheltered spot just on South of house I have my little one out in a small rubber bowl with a desk lamp over him and he is in the sunshine and he eats! he is very stimulated by the real sun
I can't have him out long but he is eating and seems happier outside.
Soon this is absolutely not an option as we are getting colder, but whilst I can get real sun I'll snatch a few mins here and there if i can keep him warm.
Yesterday I purchased some fittings and a 7.5 iguana UV bulb-They were in a sale for $8 each so I thought I would set that up and remove the mvb. I have two options for heat-a bask bulb or the ceramic heaters-I picked up some older stock che too so a real good sale day in a city. Its 3 hours drive to get there so I loaded up on the options.