HEEELP !!! Baby cherryhead skin is peeling off

[Adam90]

I do not know anything about the needs of poison dart frogs, but some of the supplements that seem to be marketed toward them (Dendrocare and Pleuscare) have very similar levels of vitamin A to the Repashy products, about 205,000 IU/lb of vitamin A.

Another Repashy product "Repashy SuperVeggie" even has a picture of a redfoot on the bottle, and comes with a vitamin A content of 100,000 IUl/lb. A thread came up a while back where a lady had a baby leopard tortoise that she fed both the Calcium Plus and SuperVeggie. It had crazy skin peeling and its nails were falling out.

You've got to be kidding me! Is this common knowledge??? Until you brought it to light I hadn't heard a peep about this. Shits terrible. Putting a redfoot tortoise on the bottle has undoubtedly swayed some people into buying that garbage thinking it was good for RF. That **** has to be responsible for lord knows how many ailments and deaths. Wow

 

[TammyJ]

I was thinking if maybe it was some kinda allergic reaction...but, wow! I hope the little guy(s?) survive and recover when you quit the "supplements"! Keep us posted please.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

If anybody has had a similar issue please let me know. My parameters are 75% @ 75°ish. I like to keep them outside during the day and bring them in at night but it's been a bit cold in my part of Florida lately so they've been inside in a 1.5ft x 2.5ft bin. If the lid on the bin is on for a longer period of time my humidity jumps over 80. I have them on a mix of reptibark, coco fiber, sphagnum, and leca substrate. I try to soak them every day but sometimes they'll skip a day. I noticed one of them had a little skin peeling around her head a day or 2 ago but I didn't see that to be cause for concern. When I did my maintenance rounds today I was pretty shocked and definitely concerned. It looks like it's degloving. I'm not sure how I should go about treating this situation or the cause of this skin issue in the first place and I'd like to make an educated decision before I make a dumb one. I'm not sure if the humidity was too high or if the substrate was too moist but maybe it caused some kind of fungal infection?? I have several different areas each with a different micro climate for them to utilize so nothing is making sense and this doesn't look normal. If anybody has had a similar issue I'd be very grateful to hear about it!!!!!

This looks like over supplementing. Too much vitamin A can make the skin slough off.

 

[crimson_lotus]

I believe your tortoise is suffering from a vitamin A overdose based on the excessive skin peeling. Tortoises get more than enough vitamin A precursors from their food, and pre-formed vitamin A from supplements results in overdose.

Repashy products have a way too much pre-formed vitamin A (retinly acetate). Their Calcium Plus product contains 200,000 IU/lb in addition to beta carotene, which is a precursor to vitamin A. I see no reason why you'd put both in a supplement. This supplement is definitely not safe for small tortoises.

Stop using this supplement, and wait at least 2-3 months before supplementing again with anything aside from pure calcium so that your tort can clear the vitamin A from its system.

The safest and best supplement to feed tortoises is Rep-Cal Herptivite, which contains beta carotene as a vitamin A precursor. Beta carotene alone cannot cause a vitamin A overdose; any unused beta carotene is excreted. For calcium, use pure calcium carbonate with or without D3, it does not matter much.

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Normal foods are fine, it's supplements that you want to watch out for, namely supplements that contain pre-formed or manufactured vitamin A like retinyl acetate, sometimes called 'vitamin A supplement' or 'vitamin A acetate.' Torts get plenty of vitamin A from their food such as leafy greens. What happens is the vitamin A stores in the liver get overwhelmed and the supplemental vitamin A goes to other places in the body and starts wreaking havoc. Skin is usually affected and sometimes the eyes.

More carnivorous turtles fed a poor diet can get low vitamin A, but tortoises rarely do. Vets often only remember that turtles can get low vitamin A and when a sick tort shows up, they give a vitamin A shot which is detrimental to torts.

Some scientific journal article identified the level for a fatal dose of vitamin A in Hermann's tortoises. It's a certain amount of vitamin A per gram of weight. Smaller torts are more easily overdosed with supplements due to their small size and relatively large amount in supplements like Repashy. Other brands with extremely high amounts are VetArk (UK company) and Lugarti. Rep-cal Herptivite is one of only a few on the market that is appropriate for this reason. Zovick has given it to his tortoises in large amounts for decades without any problems.

It's good to hear that your others are fine so far. This one may have just gotten more of the supplement.

Your posts were a great read, thank you! In my layman's knowledge/capacity of turtles/torts and vitamin A, I was under the general impression that reptiles do not excrete excess vitamins much like mammals do and instead detrimentally retain the vitamins to produce side effects such as skin sloughing. I had no idea though that there was a difference with turtles and tortoises as you have mentioned, but it does hold true when comparing my water turtle's experience with low vitamin A vs my tort who has never had issues despite a poor diet from previous owners. My turtle vet did say however that turtles with severe vitamin deficiencies that do need vitamin injections usually end up not making it - so I have been telling everyone on this forum that under no circumstances, turt or tort, should one get a vitamin injection. Anyway, thanks I learned something.

 

[Adam90]

This looks like over supplementing. Too much vitamin A can make the skin slough off.

It's looking like that's the case. Just Ignorance on my end. Hopefully it doesn't cost a life. At least now I know! I've never had any issues like this before.

 

[Adam90]

I was thinking if maybe it was some kinda allergic reaction...but, wow! I hope the little guy(s?) survive and recover when you quit the "supplements"! Keep us posted please.

I will! Thank you!

 

[Adam90]

To whomever might be interested..... I was able to take some of your advice and nurse the little guy back to health. I set my expectations pretty low and prepared for the worst BUT to my surprise the little guy pulled through.

Treatment: I stopped using my repashy supplements, ordered some safe supplements (Rep-Cal and herptivite), applied athletes foot cream regularly, and let him soak in warm water 2x per day and it bounced back fairly quickly. Here are some before and after pictures if interested.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!!! Unfortunately after I fixed this issue it was on to the next issue. Now a different cherry head has a resperatory infection and things aren't looking good AT ALL. 😔

BEFORE:

4 new items by adam g

photos.app.goo.gl

AFTER:

6 new items by adam g

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[MenagerieGrl]

To whomever might be interested..... I was able to take some of your advice and nurse the little guy back to health. I set my expectations pretty low and prepared for the worst BUT to my surprise the little guy pulled through.

Treatment: I stopped using my repashy supplements, ordered some safe supplements (Rep-Cal and herptivite), applied athletes foot cream regularly, and let him soak in warm water 2x per day and it bounced back fairly quickly. Here are some before and after pictures if interested.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!!! Unfortunately after I fixed this issue it was on to the next issue. Now a different cherry head has a respiratory infection and things aren't looking good AT ALL. 😔

BEFORE:

4 new items by adam g

photos.app.goo.gl

AFTER:

6 new items by adam g

photos.app.goo.gl

WOW, that is such wonderful news, I'm so happy for the both of you. It's always such a relief when you make it through such a situation....& I hope the RI issue with the other tort has a similar outcome...🤞

 

[Big Ron]

It looks terrible.

I really hope your little buddy can improve quickly,with all the help you are getting from the true experts he should be back to himself in no time please keep us posted

 

[Adam90]

I really hope your little buddy can improve quickly,with all the help you are getting from the true experts he should be back to himself in no time please keep us posted

I really hope your little buddy can improve quickly,with all the help you are getting from the true experts he should be back to himself in no time please keep us posted

Agreed!! This forum is a godsend. It's pretty incredible how many people will take the time and go out of there way to offer advice to one another. I'm convinced tortoise folk are the best kind of people there are lol.

You and me both my friend!!! I took him to the vet last week and they prescribed some ceftazidime Injections. No improvements as of yet but I will be doing everything possible to get this one back to good health! I HATE to see it struggle like this.

 

[Adam90]

WOW, that is such wonderful news, I'm so happy for the both of you. It's always such a relief when you make it through such a situation....& I hope the RI issue with the other tort has a similar outcome...🤞

Pretty incredible right?!? The little one is an absolute trooper!!

I took the other to the vet last week and got some injections for it so I'm really hoping for a similar outcome myself. No improvements as of yet but I will keep everybody posted

-THANKS!!