HEEELP !!! Baby cherryhead skin is peeling off

[Adam90]

If anybody has had a similar issue please let me know. My parameters are 75% @ 75°ish. I like to keep them outside during the day and bring them in at night but it's been a bit cold in my part of Florida lately so they've been inside in a 1.5ft x 2.5ft bin. If the lid on the bin is on for a longer period of time my humidity jumps over 80. I have them on a mix of reptibark, coco fiber, sphagnum, and leca substrate. I try to soak them every day but sometimes they'll skip a day. I noticed one of them had a little skin peeling around her head a day or 2 ago but I didn't see that to be cause for concern. When I did my maintenance rounds today I was pretty shocked and definitely concerned. It looks like it's degloving. I'm not sure how I should go about treating this situation or the cause of this skin issue in the first place and I'd like to make an educated decision before I make a dumb one. I'm not sure if the humidity was too high or if the substrate was too moist but maybe it caused some kind of fungal infection?? I have several different areas each with a different micro climate for them to utilize so nothing is making sense and this doesn't look normal. If anybody has had a similar issue I'd be very grateful to hear about it!!!!!

 

[a.tortuga]

Tortoises do shed when they are growing, however I can't tell if that's normal shedding from the picture. Did you give the little tort a nice warm soak? Maybe some of the pros can help ya. @Tom @Yvonne G

 

[Mrs.Jennifer]

If anybody has had a similar issue please let me know. My parameters are 75% @ 75°ish. I like to keep them outside during the day and bring them in at night but it's been a bit cold in my part of Florida lately so they've been inside in a 1.5ft x 2.5ft bin. If the lid on the bin is on for a longer period of time my humidity jumps over 80. I have them on a mix of reptibark, coco fiber, sphagnum, and leca substrate. I try to soak them every day but sometimes they'll skip a day. I noticed one of them had a little skin peeling around her head a day or 2 ago but I didn't see that to be cause for concern. When I did my maintenance rounds today I was pretty shocked and definitely concerned. It looks like it's degloving. I'm not sure how I should go about treating this situation or the cause of this skin issue in the first place and I'd like to make an educated decision before I make a dumb one. I'm not sure if the humidity was too high or if the substrate was too moist but maybe it caused some kind of fungal infection?? I have several different areas each with a different micro climate for them to utilize so nothing is making sense and this doesn't look normal. If anybody has had a similar issue I'd be very grateful to hear about it!!!!!

I only know about Russians, but @ZEROPILOT is our Floridian red foot guru!

 

[Adam90]

Tortoises do shed when they are growing, however I can't tell if that's normal shedding from the picture. Did you give the little tort a nice warm soak? Maybe some of the pros can help ya. @Tom @Yvonne G

Thanks that's what I'm hoping!!! Hopefully it's just shedding but I can't find any other cases of this happening elsewhere. which is a LITTLE disconcerting.

 

[TammyJ]

What I am seeing just looks like the normal folds of skin on his neck when he tucks his head in. Are you seeing loose flakes of skin in the enclosure?

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Hello, I'm not a Cherry Head parent, But I have a friend that is....
Try this link, a TFO member created a Redfoot care sheet...the Care for Cherry Head's is similar..

Redfoot Care Sheet(hopefully final draft)

I’m too lazy to put the new pictures in, but I guess that’ll make it easier to critique, too ;) Please share anything you would like me to change! —————— DISCLAIMER: I do not keep redfoots, and I only have one tortoise in total. With this in mind, remember that I am in no way an expert, and...

www.tortoiseforum.org

Hope this helps...
Thank you @TechnoCheese

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I also don't see any issues from that one photo.
But in the other photos you've PMed me, I see what looks like the beginning of a fungal issue.
Treat those areas in question with some ATHLETES FOOT CREAM.
Avoid the areas that might contact his eyes and his mouth.
I use the dollar store cream.
No need to get the fancy stuff. It all works pretty effectively

 

[Adam90]

What I am seeing just looks like the normal folds of skin on his neck when he tucks his head in. Are you seeing loose flakes of skin in the enclosure?

Hmm it looks like only one photo uploaded for some reason. In that photo it doesn't look bad at all but it's extremely noticable when he sticks his head out. There are big sheets of skin hanging off of him on it's neck and legs it looks terrible!!

 

[Adam90]

Here are 2 more pictures. If you received the photo before this youll see it's pretty noticable on it's back leg. That's all skin hanging off.

 

[crimson_lotus]

was your tort given a vitamin injection by a vet recently?

 

[Adam90]

I also don't see any issues from that one photo.
But in the other photos you've PMed me, I see what looks like the beginning of a fungal issue.
Treat those areas in question with some ATHLETES FOOT CREAM.
Avoid the areas that might contact his eyes and his mouth.
I use the dollar store cream.
No need to get the fancy stuff. It all works pretty effectively

10-4 I will definitely do that. And yes I would agree that was a dumb picture to send on my part. But this one with all the brown skin hanging off its driver side/rear leg tells a different story. Should I continue to soak this guy regularly or stop and let it dry out or...?? What do you think?

 

[Adam90]

was your tort given a vitamin injection by a vet recently?

Nor sir. No vitamin injection. As far as vitamin supplementation goes I dust their food with repashy calcium plus or crush down some mozuri pellets and roll their food in it like a chicken cutlet. They don't seam to care for it on it's own.

 

[Adam90]

What I am seeing just looks like the normal folds of skin on his neck when he tucks his head in. Are you seeing loose flakes of skin in the enclosure?

 

[Adam90]

Nothing IN the enclosure so far. The large sheets of skin are still attached. That was just a bad photo i sent

 

[TeamZissou]

Nor sir. No vitamin injection. As far as vitamin supplementation goes I dust their food with repashy calcium plus or crush down some mozuri pellets and roll their food in it like a chicken cutlet. They don't seam to care for it on it's own.

I believe your tortoise is suffering from a vitamin A overdose based on the excessive skin peeling. Tortoises get more than enough vitamin A precursors from their food, and pre-formed vitamin A from supplements results in overdose.

Repashy products have a way too much pre-formed vitamin A (retinly acetate). Their Calcium Plus product contains 200,000 IU/lb in addition to beta carotene, which is a precursor to vitamin A. I see no reason why you'd put both in a supplement. This supplement is definitely not safe for small tortoises.

Stop using this supplement, and wait at least 2-3 months before supplementing again with anything aside from pure calcium so that your tort can clear the vitamin A from its system.

The safest and best supplement to feed tortoises is Rep-Cal Herptivite, which contains beta carotene as a vitamin A precursor. Beta carotene alone cannot cause a vitamin A overdose; any unused beta carotene is excreted. For calcium, use pure calcium carbonate with or without D3, it does not matter much.

 

[Adam90]

I believe your tortoise is suffering from a vitamin A overdose based on the excessive skin peeling. Tortoises get more than enough vitamin A precursors from their food, and pre-formed vitamin A from supplements results in overdose.

Repashy products have a way too much pre-formed vitamin A (retinly acetate). Their Calcium Plus product contains 200,000 IU/lb in addition to beta carotene, which is a precursor to vitamin A. I see no reason why you'd put both in a supplement. This supplement is definitely not safe for small tortoises.

Stop using this supplement, and wait at least 2-3 months before supplementing again with anything aside from pure calcium so that your tort can clear the vitamin A from its system.

The safest and best supplement to feed tortoises is Rep-Cal Herptivite, which contains beta carotene as a vitamin A precursor. Beta carotene alone cannot cause a vitamin A overdose; any unused beta carotene is excreted. For calcium, use pure calcium carbonate with or without D3, it does not matter much.

View attachment 340290

Holy S**T! ok that really makes alot of sense thank you for letting me know. I've been dusting their food 2 to 3 times a week. My other cherryheads seam to be alright but there is something serious going on with this one. Here are some recent photos from 10 minutes ago if anybody cares to take look. Is there any other foods I should stay away from??

 

[Adam90]

It looks terrible.

 

[TeamZissou]

Holy S**T! ok that really makes alot of sense thank you for letting me know. I've been dusting their food 2 to 3 times a week. My other cherryheads seam to be alright but there is something serious going on with this one. Here are some recent photos from 10 minutes ago if anybody cares to take look. Is there any other foods I should stay away from??

Normal foods are fine, it's supplements that you want to watch out for, namely supplements that contain pre-formed or manufactured vitamin A like retinyl acetate, sometimes called 'vitamin A supplement' or 'vitamin A acetate.' Torts get plenty of vitamin A from their food such as leafy greens. What happens is the vitamin A stores in the liver get overwhelmed and the supplemental vitamin A goes to other places in the body and starts wreaking havoc. Skin is usually affected and sometimes the eyes.

More carnivorous turtles fed a poor diet can get low vitamin A, but tortoises rarely do. Vets often only remember that turtles can get low vitamin A and when a sick tort shows up, they give a vitamin A shot which is detrimental to torts.

Some scientific journal article identified the level for a fatal dose of vitamin A in Hermann's tortoises. It's a certain amount of vitamin A per gram of weight. Smaller torts are more easily overdosed with supplements due to their small size and relatively large amount in supplements like Repashy. Other brands with extremely high amounts are VetArk (UK company) and Lugarti. Rep-cal Herptivite is one of only a few on the market that is appropriate for this reason. Zovick has given it to his tortoises in large amounts for decades without any problems.

It's good to hear that your others are fine so far. This one may have just gotten more of the supplement.

 

[Adam90]

Normal foods are fine, it's supplements that you want to watch out for, namely supplements that contain pre-formed or manufactured vitamin A like retinyl acetate, sometimes called 'vitamin A supplement' or 'vitamin A acetate.' Torts get plenty of vitamin A from their food such as leafy greens. What happens is the vitamin A stores in the liver get overwhelmed and the supplemental vitamin A goes to other places in the body and starts wreaking havoc. Skin is usually affected and sometimes the eyes.

More carnivorous turtles fed a poor diet can get low vitamin A, but tortoises rarely do. Vets often only remember that turtles can get low vitamin A and when a sick tort shows up, they give a vitamin A shot which is detrimental to torts.

Some scientific journal article identified the level for a fatal dose of vitamin A in Hermann's tortoises. It's a certain amount of vitamin A per gram of weight. Smaller torts are more easily overdosed with supplements due to their small size and relatively large amount in supplements like Repashy. Other brands with extremely high amounts are VetArk (UK company) and Lugarti. Rep-cal Herptivite is one of only a few on the market that is appropriate for this reason. Zovick has given it to his tortoises in large amounts for decades without any problems.

It's good to hear that your others are fine so far. This one may have just gotten more of the supplement.

Complete negligence on my part. I didn't know vit-A was in repashy calc+. Ive got a ton of vivariums to keep/ breed dart frogs and their food has to be dusted with calc+ for EVERY feeding AND have to buy an additional bottle of repashy vit-A for them (extremely important) which they take only once or twice per month since it stays in their system a build up of vit-A is catastrophic in dart frogs in the same way you just described. Needless to say I have ALOT of repashy calcium+ laying around, I already have a mess of it, little 1.5"-2" frogs are unharmed by taking it 5x/week, AND it was made for reptiles so I assumed it was ok to use which has proven to be and extremely dumbassed decision on my part. I've got a pharmacist mother and an MD sister and this reads like you're somewhere in between the 2. It sounds like you're VERY knowledgeable in this area so I appreciate your input.

Unfortunately for you I might have to bug you in the future if I have anymore problems lolol. Thanks man

 

[TeamZissou]

I do not know anything about the needs of poison dart frogs, but some of the supplements that seem to be marketed toward them (Dendrocare and Pleuscare) have very similar levels of vitamin A to the Repashy products, about 205,000 IU/lb of vitamin A.

Another Repashy product "Repashy SuperVeggie" even has a picture of a redfoot on the bottle, and comes with a vitamin A content of 100,000 IUl/lb. A thread came up a while back where a lady had a baby leopard tortoise that she fed both the Calcium Plus and SuperVeggie. It had crazy skin peeling and its nails were falling out.