Hello, new member with a baby sulcata, looking for critiques or recommendations for its current enclosure

[Sulcata_AZ]

Hello my name is Mike and we live in Phoenix, AZ. We recently got a baby sulcata in the last month, haven’t settled on a name but possibly tortellini, my daughter has been asking about getting a tortoise for the last year and a half and figured she would forget about it at some point but she never did so here we are now.
I’ve kept Chinese water dragons and a bearded dragon in my youth through my early 20’s, I was an active user on repticzone (doesn’t look like it’s around anymore). So I am dedicated to providing the proper long term care required.
Before getting long winded I’ll preface with this, basically I’m posting because I would like critiques and recommendations for the enclosure specifically on adding foliage or moss, can I use a UVB bulb as a basking lamp because I have a 125w incandescent flood light dimmed down for proper basking temps but dimming it down generates a not nice whining noise. Is it recommended to keep the plastic hide container in the hutch, is it necessary when it’s already an enclosed hutch? I will attach images of everything we’ve got going on.
Setup the cage in advance, looking back I probably should have bought a fully enclosed reptile plastics cage but I wasn’t aware of the humidity requirements at the time so we got an aivituvin tortoise enclosure. I worked with the temps and enclosure sealing to generate 70-90% humidity depending on location. I ended up putting truck bed camper shell weather stripping around the top of the enclosure so the doors have a tight seal, I used some extra kids place mats and cut them to fit on top of the screened lid and taped them down and cut a circle for the basking lamp. We keep our home A/C thermostat between 78-80 depending on the time of day.
I was able to find a dimmable 125w incandescent flood lamp bulb and dimmed it down to generate between 95-100 degrees at the basking spot. The far left back corner of the enclosure has a temp probe and reads around 80-82 consistently. Inside the hutch portion of the enclosure the temp is around 80-82 as well. For a substrate there is a thick layer of zoo med reptibark.
We spray the enclosure twice a day with softened and RO treated water, the tort gets a daily soak for about 30 mins, gets sun time for around an hour 2 times a week early in the AM before the extreme heat of Phoenix starts, trying to avoid greens but haven’t really established and dialed in the diet, bought some mazuri small tortoise diet LS and a natural cuttlefish bone.
So far I think we are going in the right direction.
The tort likes the basking spot, sleeps there and in his hide, has been digging down into a corner in his hide, eats well, likes to move when it’s not napping.
Well if you’ve read this far thank you! And thank you in advanced for any help!

 

[wellington]

Unfortunately you were sold the same wrong enclosure so many get caught up into buying. A closed chamber is needed with all heat and lights inside.
The cheapest way to go is a pop up portable greenhouse. I will enclosure a pic.
The flood bulb only needs to be a 65 watt. You could raise the bulb, but not with that enclosure. Even the greenhouse may not be high enough for that size bulb.
A tube flourescent for uvb is needed unless you can get him outside for real sun. However, with your temps in AZ lately, I don't think I'd bring a baby outside.
Ceramic heat emitters are used for added heat needed and night heat.
Temps should never go below 80 day and night
Humidity 80%
And basking area 95-100.
Never use moss, it can cause entanglement inside and out
Orchid bark, fir bark or coconut coir should be used
In a closed chamber, the substrate is dampened and about once a week will need added dampness to hold humidity.
A tarp for a floor will be needed on the greenhouse.

 

[Sulcata_AZ]

Unfortunately you were sold the same wrong enclosure so many get caught up into buying. A closed chamber is needed with all heat and lights inside.
The cheapest way to go is a pop up portable greenhouse. I will enclosure a pic.
The flood bulb only needs to be a 65 watt. You could raise the bulb, but not with that enclosure. Even the greenhouse may not be high enough for that size bulb.
A tube flourescent for uvb is needed unless you can get him outside for real sun. However, with your temps in AZ lately, I don't think I'd bring a baby outside.
Ceramic heat emitters are used for added heat needed and night heat.
Temps should never go below 80 day and night
Humidity 80%
And basking area 95-100.
Never use moss, it can cause entanglement inside and out
Orchid bark, fir bark or coconut coir should be used
In a closed chamber, the substrate is dampened and about once a week will need added dampness to hold humidity.
A tarp for a floor will be needed on the greenhouse.
View attachment 375598

I have had some difficulty trying to source a 65watt incandescent flood bulb so that’s why I got the 125w because it was the lowest I could find and I put it on a dimmer switch, directly under the heat lamp basking spot is around 95-100, once I had the temp dialed in I taped down the dimmer switch so it could not be messed with.
Do you have a recommendation or a source for a basking bulb, is incandescent still the recommend bulb? Or would it be possible to use a UVB bulb as heat source as well as providing uvb?
I take him out for sun time around 6 am when it’s still in the high 80’s-low 90’s. I know the enclose is incorrect in its “original configuration” but I have modified it to retain heat and humidity. I am hoping this will be adequate until I build the permanent enclosure when the tortoise is older.
My known good thermostat/hygrometer (out of one of my humidors) indicates temps/humidity are all within range throughout the day.
I’m not trying to argue with your advice because it’s all advice that I have read and have to come to understand is correct and have attempted to address.

 

[Sulcata_AZ]

Unfortunately you were sold the same wrong enclosure so many get caught up into buying. A closed chamber is needed with all heat and lights inside.
The cheapest way to go is a pop up portable greenhouse. I will enclosure a pic.
The flood bulb only needs to be a 65 watt. You could raise the bulb, but not with that enclosure. Even the greenhouse may not be high enough for that size bulb.
A tube flourescent for uvb is needed unless you can get him outside for real sun. However, with your temps in AZ lately, I don't think I'd bring a baby outside.
Ceramic heat emitters are used for added heat needed and night heat.
Temps should never go below 80 day and night
Humidity 80%
And basking area 95-100.
Never use moss, it can cause entanglement inside and out
Orchid bark, fir bark or coconut coir should be used
In a closed chamber, the substrate is dampened and about once a week will need added dampness to hold humidity.
A tarp for a floor will be needed on the greenhouse.
View attachment 375598

I do like those greenhouses though, good idea for a future enclosure.

 

[wellington]

I have had some difficulty trying to source a 65watt incandescent flood bulb so that’s why I got the 125w because it was the lowest I could find and I put it on a dimmer switch, directly under the heat lamp basking spot is around 95-100, once I had the temp dialed in I taped down the dimmer switch so it could not be messed with.
Do you have a recommendation or a source for a basking bulb, is incandescent still the recommend bulb? Or would it be possible to use a UVB bulb as heat source as well as providing uvb?
I take him out for sun time around 6 am when it’s still in the high 80’s-low 90’s. I know the enclose is incorrect in its “original configuration” but I have modified it to retain heat and humidity. I am hoping this will be adequate until I build the permanent enclosure when the tortoise is older.
My known good thermostat/hygrometer (out of one of my humidors) indicates temps/humidity are all within range throughout the day.
I’m not trying to argue with your advice because it’s all advice that I have read and have to come to understand is correct and have attempted to address.

No the incandescent flood is the one for basking and tube fluorescent for uvb or sun.
That enclosure will not last him long than a year maybe. He will need much bigger before he is 10-12 inches and can live outside.
As long as you can keep the 125 dialed down, I know you mentioned it made a noise.
As long as the humidity is staying 80% and not only when you most it, but all the time and the substrate is damp then it might work. Never seen many work though with lights and heat letting heat and humidity out.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome! Cute baby🥰

Just to quickly answer a few of your questions, no an all in one basking and uv bulb isn’t appropriate for these guys, I’ll go more into that below.

This enclosure is unfortunately inappropriate for your baby to thrive, it may last a little while if you can modify it to retain 85+ humidity all over 24/7, but unfortunately I think that will be very difficult, I think you’ll need to update sooner rather than later, this hatchling stage is vital to get correct for a future healthily tortoise.
Hopefully we can help advise you moving forward, care advice for these guys is painfully behind, fb pages, YouTube, pet stores, they’re all repeating the same outdated advice, this forum is made of people who have spent years finding the best ways to care for them that actually result in healthy tortoise.

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for this guy until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give you some ideas!

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 at night all over.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a must. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.

Large dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely👍

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve included examples of the two brands to go for, the Arcadia comes with the reflector fitting but the reptisun needs it buying separate.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for young growing tortoises benefits when maintained around 80%+, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have for now.

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this tortoise, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches from top of tortoises shell for the Arcadia uv) then secure with cable ties and chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer large enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look to small for the species imo to last long, but hopefully they help inspire an idea👍

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct🙂

As this is a closed chamber set up, I’d recommend letting the materials off gas for about a week or until there is no odour

Wishing you all the best from the uk🥰

 

[Sulcata_AZ]

No the incandescent flood is the one for basking and tube fluorescent for uvb or sun.
That enclosure will not last him long than a year maybe. He will need much bigger before he is 10-12 inches and can live outside.
As long as you can keep the 125 dialed down, I know you mentioned it made a noise.
As long as the humidity is staying 80% and not only when you most it, but all the time and the substrate is damp then it might work. Never seen many work though with lights and heat letting heat and humidity out.

We will definitely adjust as

No the incandescent flood is the one for basking and tube fluorescent for uvb or sun.
That enclosure will not last him long than a year maybe. He will need much bigger before he is 10-12 inches and can live outside.
As long as you can keep the 125 dialed down, I know you mentioned it made a noise.
As long as the humidity is staying 80% and not only when you most it, but all the time and the substrate is damp then it might work. Never seen many work though with lights and heat letting heat and humidity out.

I should also mention I plan to start building an outdoor enclosure when it starts to cool down, the current setup was only intended for around 1 to 2 years at the most but I think I will be moving up that timeline. I had read in "The best way to raise a Sulcata" post on the sulcata sub-forum that around 1-2 years would be okay for full time outdoors.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

We will definitely adjust as

I should also mention I plan to start building an outdoor enclosure when it starts to cool down, the current setup was only intended for around 1 to 2 years at the most but I think I will be moving up that timeline. I had read in "The best way to raise a Sulcata" post on the sulcata sub-forum that around 1-2 years would be okay for full time outdoors.

It depends more on size than age tbh, theoretically around the age of two, a sulcata might be the size and weight they need to be. He needs to measure at least 10 inches I believe, @Tom can answer to that, I can’t remember what weight is recommended off the top of my head

Till then, I’d recommend getting a closed chamber set up sorted like the greenhouse, this home won’t do up until he’s ready for outside size wise

 

[Sulcata_AZ]

Hello and welcome! Cute baby🥰

Just to quickly answer a few of your questions, no an all in one basking and uv bulb isn’t appropriate for these guys, I’ll go more into that below.

This enclosure is unfortunately inappropriate for your baby to thrive, it may last a little while if you can modify it to retain 85+ humidity all over 24/7, but unfortunately I think that will be very difficult, I think you’ll need to update sooner rather than later, this hatchling stage is vital to get correct for a future healthily tortoise.
Hopefully we can help advise you moving forward, care advice for these guys is painfully behind, fb pages, YouTube, pet stores, they’re all repeating the same outdated advice, this forum is made of people who have spent years finding the best ways to care for them that actually result in healthy tortoise.

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for this guy until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give you some ideas!

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 at night all over.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a must. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.

Large dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely👍

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve included examples of the two brands to go for, the Arcadia comes with the reflector fitting but the reptisun needs it buying separate.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for young growing tortoises benefits when maintained around 80%+, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have for now.

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this tortoise, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches from top of tortoises shell for the Arcadia uv) then secure with cable ties and chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer large enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look to small for the species imo to last long, but hopefully they help inspire an idea👍

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct🙂

As this is a closed chamber set up, I’d recommend letting the materials off gas for about a week or until there is no odour

Wishing you all the best from the uk🥰

wow thank you so much for all of that information, looks like I'll be starting on a base here soon, seeing the images of the enclosures makes a lot of sense and a lot of room to roam! I had bought an undertank heater but returned it due to the temps stating between 78-84 all day/night and because I wasn't really sure where to mount it, but if the temps need to stay above 80 then I will get a CHE. I was also looking at radiant heat panels.
so yeah I will be making the tort a larger enclosure with a base and probably a pop up greenhouse unless I can think of something else for the top.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

wow thank you so much for all of that information, looks like I'll be starting on a base here soon, seeing the images of the enclosures makes a lot of sense and a lot of room to roam! I had bought an undertank heater but returned it due to the temps stating between 78-84 all day/night and because I wasn't really sure where to mount it, but if the temps need to stay above 80 then I will get a CHE. I was also looking at radiant heat panels.
so yeah I will be making the tort a larger enclosure with a base and probably a pop up greenhouse unless I can think of something else for the top.

No problem at all! Sounds good, if your temps are staying around 84 all over once the basking light is off, then a che might not be needed, but with the enclosure being larger, it’ll probably be worth getting one, or two depending how big you go, they’ll make sure your set up is staying the right temperature, in the event the floodlight isn’t heating the whole thing during the day, they’ll make up the ambient heat too👍
I wouldn’t set up any kind of under tank heating personally, tortoises burrow down to thermoregulate themselves, so need those lower layers to be cooler, I’ve hear RHP are good but more expensive and ceramics in a large wide dome work great😊

I think a greenhouse topper will probably be your best bet, they usually have zip openings for easy access.
Depending on your diy skills though, you could potentially make your own frame with a hinge opening and attach pvc panels, I’ve seen people do it, I’ll have to see if I can find an example if you’re interested, but ultimately it’s what ever is most cost effective for you🙂

 

[wellington]

We will definitely adjust as

I should also mention I plan to start building an outdoor enclosure when it starts to cool down, the current setup was only intended for around 1 to 2 years at the most but I think I will be moving up that timeline. I had read in "The best way to raise a Sulcata" post on the sulcata sub-forum that around 1-2 years would be okay for full time outdoors.

That is wrong. They need to be in a closed chamber until 10-12 inches not by years or all the hard work to grow him smooth and healthy will be pretty much wasted.
You have the choice though to do it the way this forum recommends or the way the other place recommends. I can almost guarantee that they don't have the experience or experiments behind them.

 

[Fluffy]

That is wrong. They need to be in a closed chamber until 10-12 inches not by years or all the hard work to grow him smooth and healthy will be pretty much wasted.
You have the choice though to do it the way this forum recommends or the way the other place recommends. I can almost guarantee that they don't have the experience or experiments behind them.

You do realize they're talking about tom's thread on THIS forum don't you ?

 

[wellington]

You do realize they're talking about tom's thread on THIS forum don't you ?

No I didn't lol, there is, or at least used to be a sulcata forum or FB group, that I thought he was talking about. But putting the tortoise outside at the age of 1 or 2, that's not Toms info, not to live 24/7 as the OP was talking. If it's the proper size at that age, likely not one, then yes, but not just because it's one of two years old.