Help transitioning CB baby Greek from pellet bedding

[TFM]

What substrate would you recommend for a baby Golden Greek Tortoise that is captive bred and used to living on pellet bedding?

The reptile store recommended I continue with the pellet bedding. Tort was active and burrowing to sleep, until yesterday when I changed the substrate to loose EcoEarth. My goal was to achieve a healthier environment as I read pine is toxic and I believe these pellets are pine.

Tort did not seem to like the EcoEarth, avoided walking through it, stayed on the feeding plate and clawed more than usual on the enclosure window.

After a few hours of the Tort not settling, I added a great deal of pellet bedding and the tort partially buried and turned in for the night.

I realize in hindsight this was not the best decision, any tips or recommendations would be greatly appreciated as this is my first tortoise.

 

[TFM]

Here is a picture of the enclosure now. I did this only to get tort to settle but I do not intend to keep it this way.

 

[wellington]

Coconut coir or orchid bark, not pellets. The store knows nothing about proper tortoise care.
The tortoise is pyramided because it's been kept too dry with no humidity.

 

[TammyJ]

Hi and welcome! Give us details of your setup in terms of lighting, humidity level, diet. Fine grade orchid bark is the best substrate for your baby.

 

[wellington]

Oh and no slow transition needed, just switch it out with proper substrate.

 

[TFM]

Hi and welcome! Give us details of your setup in terms of lighting, humidity level, diet. Fine grade orchid bark is the best substrate for your baby.

Hi and thank you!
Warm side has a 100w basking lamp, temp at 100 degrees. Cool side has a 50w UVB, temp at 85 degrees.

Humidity is currently at 43 but its dropping so I added mist this morning. I'm sure this is due to the EcoEarth and the pellet combo. Humidity previously with just the pellet substrate was in the mid 50's so I did not moisten the EcoEarth too much when I added it yesterday. However, I will be switching out the substrate today to a fine grade oak bark to correct this.

Its day 4 with my baby so diet has been romaine lettuce and a few shredded carrots. I dont have natural access to weeds but looking into options to provide a variety.

 

[TFM]

Oh and no slow transition needed, just switch it out with proper substrate.

This is good to know. Thank you!

 

[Tom]

Hi and thank you!
Warm side has a 100w basking lamp, temp at 100 degrees. Cool side has a 50w UVB, temp at 85 degrees.

Humidity is currently at 43 but its dropping so I added mist this morning. I'm sure this is due to the EcoEarth and the pellet combo. Humidity previously with just the pellet substrate was in the mid 50's so I did not moisten the EcoEarth too much when I added it yesterday. However, I will be switching out the substrate today to a fine grade oak bark to correct this.

Its day 4 with my baby so diet has been romaine lettuce and a few shredded carrots. I dont have natural access to weeds but looking into options to provide a variety.

The coco coir is the best way to go for a baby. It needs to be damp and it needs to be hand packed, not loose.

You can't mix the two substrate because the pellets will disintegrate and mold.

Orchid bark would be fine too, but I prefer coco coir for baby Testudo. I use orchid bark for them when they get older.

Carrots are not a good tortoise food. Skip that. Too high in sugar. Read the care sheet I will leave for you for the correct care and diet info.

Everyone has access to weeds. Especially here in CA. They are everywhere all year long. What part of CA are you in? Different advice for Hemet vs. the High Sierras.

Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[TFM]

The coco coir is the best way to go for a baby. It needs to be damp and it needs to be hand packed, not loose.

You can't mix the two substrate because the pellets will disintegrate and mold.

Orchid bark would be fine too, but I prefer coco coir for baby Testudo. I use orchid bark for them when they get older.

Carrots are not a good tortoise food. Skip that. Too high in sugar. Read the care sheet I will leave for you for the correct care and diet info.

Everyone has access to weeds. Especially here in CA. They are everywhere all year long. What part of CA are you in? Different advice for Hemet vs. the High Sierras.

Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The coco coir is the best way to go for a baby. It needs to be damp and it needs to be hand packed, not loose.

You can't mix the two substrate because the pellets will disintegrate and mold.

Orchid bark would be fine too, but I prefer coco coir for baby Testudo. I use orchid bark for them when they get older.

Carrots are not a good tortoise food. Skip that. Too high in sugar. Read the care sheet I will leave for you for the correct care and diet info.

Everyone has access to weeds. Especially here in CA. They are everywhere all year long. What part of CA are you in? Different advice for Hemet vs. the High Sierras.

Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

@Tom Thank you for the guidance. I wish I had come across this forum to better prepare before but I will do what I need to do to keep my tortoise healthy. I am located in Los Angeles, in an apartment with a backyard full of ivy and no weeds (atleast that I can reach due to a hill. I am not confident that the neighborhood weeds are pesticide free. I will look into natural foods and in the mean time Kapidolo farms to supplement a variety of grocery greens.

1. Is washing/rinsing weeds sufficient enough to remove pesticides?

Earlier today, I changed out the enclosure substrate to fine grade orchid bark that I purchased from my local nursery. It may have been unnecessary, but I wanted to see how my Tortoise would adjust to the bark before adding substrate to the green section that has reptile flooring (pictures attached).

Ive only had my tortoise for 4 days. Prior to using Orchid bark, my tortoise would burrow in pine pellets to sleep inside the tree stump hide (if this indeed qualifies as a hide). Today after changing to bark, my tortoise roams the enclosure but will no longer enter the hide. After pacing for hours my tortoise decided to burrow in an open area of the enclosure to sleep for the night.

Questions for all :

1. From your experience, would it be beneficial to place hand packed coco coir in the green carpeted area of my enclosure? Or is it best to keep it unified and fill this area with orchid bark?

Previously, my tortoise did not care for the damp loose coir and would not walk through the substrate, until I started to worry and added back in the pine pellets. Day 1 my tortoise adjusted quickly to the enclosure, I was using the exact substrate the reptile store use.

2. This may be a silly question but how do I know the orchid bark is damp enough? Do I dampen based on the humidity level?

Today my humidity fluctuated between 60 and 75 (with a light mist after the initial placement). Temperatures held at 99 on the warm and 85 on the cool. After reading the link provided I realize having an open enclosure is an issue. Once I get lamp stands I will be closing up my enclosure.

 

[Tom]

@Tom Thank you for the guidance. I wish I had come across this forum to better prepare before but I will do what I need to do to keep my tortoise healthy. I am located in Los Angeles, in an apartment with a backyard full of ivy and no weeds (atleast that I can reach due to a hill. I am not confident that the neighborhood weeds are pesticide free. I will look into natural foods and in the mean time Kapidolo farms to supplement a variety of grocery greens.

1. Is washing/rinsing weeds sufficient enough to remove pesticides?

Earlier today, I changed out the enclosure substrate to fine grade orchid bark that I purchased from my local nursery. It may have been unnecessary, but I wanted to see how my Tortoise would adjust to the bark before adding substrate to the green section that has reptile flooring (pictures attached).

Ive only had my tortoise for 4 days. Prior to using Orchid bark, my tortoise would burrow in pine pellets to sleep inside the tree stump hide (if this indeed qualifies as a hide). Today after changing to bark, my tortoise roams the enclosure but will no longer enter the hide. After pacing for hours my tortoise decided to burrow in an open area of the enclosure to sleep for the night.

Questions for all :

1. From your experience, would it be beneficial to place hand packed coco coir in the green carpeted area of my enclosure? Or is it best to keep it unified and fill this area with orchid bark?

Previously, my tortoise did not care for the damp loose coir and would not walk through the substrate, until I started to worry and added back in the pine pellets. Day 1 my tortoise adjusted quickly to the enclosure, I was using the exact substrate the reptile store use.

2. This may be a silly question but how do I know the orchid bark is damp enough? Do I dampen based on the humidity level?

Today my humidity fluctuated between 60 and 75 (with a light mist after the initial placement). Temperatures held at 99 on the warm and 85 on the cool. After reading the link provided I realize having an open enclosure is an issue. Once I get lamp stands I will be closing up my enclosure.

Weed scrounging is an art form. I've done it for decades. Rinsing/soaking the weeds might help, and certainly won't do any harm. Herbicides leave an oily residue and usually begin killing the plant within minutes of application, so that is pretty easy to see. I look for healthy green weeds with some sign of insect life nearby or on the leaves. Holes from caterpilllars, spider webs, ants, etc... Vacant lots. Unkempt lawns. I would not pull weeds from any sort of park or apartment complex as those have paid gardeners that tend to spray all sort of chemicals all over everything.

Just pick a substrate and leave it alone. If you have orchid bark in there now, just leave it. The tortoise will get used to whatever is in there if you just give it time and stop changing it.

You adjust the level of dampness by feel, by humidity level and by how your tortoises growth looks over time.

You can't close up that type of enclosure. Having the lights outside creates a chimney effect that draws all the heat and humidity up and out. Most of the heat generated by your heat lamp will simply heat the room, not the enclosure. Also, the wood will rot with the constant dampness and humidity. You need a large closed chamber with all the heating and lighting contained inside.

We all wish you had found us first. I always feel awful telling people all this stuff because it is so frustrating and discouraging. I console myself with the knowledge that while discovering that the pet store told you all the old wrong info and sold you all the wrong stuff is maddening, knowing how to keep your tortoise growing smoothly and healthy is the most important thing.

 

[TFM]

Weed scrounging is an art form. I've done it for decades. Rinsing/soaking the weeds might help, and certainly won't do any harm. Herbicides leave an oily residue and usually begin killing the plant within minutes of application, so that is pretty easy to see. I look for healthy green weeds with some sign of insect life nearby or on the leaves. Holes from caterpilllars, spider webs, ants, etc... Vacant lots. Unkempt lawns. I would not pull weeds from any sort of park or apartment complex as those have paid gardeners that tend to spray all sort of chemicals all over everything.

Just pick a substrate and leave it alone. If you have orchid bark in there now, just leave it. The tortoise will get used to whatever is in there if you just give it time and stop changing it.

You adjust the level of dampness by feel, by humidity level and by how your tortoises growth looks over time.

You can't close up that type of enclosure. Having the lights outside creates a chimney effect that draws all the heat and humidity up and out. Most of the heat generated by your heat lamp will simply heat the room, not the enclosure. Also, the wood will rot with the constant dampness and humidity. You need a large closed chamber with all the heating and lighting contained inside.

We all wish you had found us first. I always feel awful telling people all this stuff because it is so frustrating and discouraging. I console myself with the knowledge that while discovering that the pet store told you all the old wrong info and sold you all the wrong stuff is maddening, knowing how to keep your tortoise growing smoothly and healthy is the most important thing.

From front to back my I would say my tortoise is about 3 inches. I would like to make my own closed chamber, I'm leaning towards a plastic storage bin.

1. I know @Tom recommended a 30x48 area for a baby. Is there a thread you can recommend or could you please provide me with a picture of ideal enclosures that I can reference?

2. If using a plastic storage bin, what size in quarts/gallon (if possible) would be ideal?
3. How deep should the substrate be?
I plan to use fine grade orchid bark since I have that already.

4. How long would my baby tortoise need to stay in a closed chamber. I'm not sure of the hatching date.

I've read through threads, watched youtube videos but any guidance or tips would be greatly appreciated as I've never done anything like this before and would like to do it properly
Thank you all in advance!

 

[Tom]

From front to back my I would say my tortoise is about 3 inches. I would like to make my own closed chamber, I'm leaning towards a plastic storage bin.

1. I know @Tom recommended a 30x48 area for a baby. Is there a thread you can recommend or could you please provide me with a picture of ideal enclosures that I can reference?

2. If using a plastic storage bin, what size in quarts/gallon (if possible) would be ideal?
3. How deep should the substrate be?
I plan to use fine grade orchid bark since I have that already.

4. How long would my baby tortoise need to stay in a closed chamber. I'm not sure of the hatching date.

I've read through threads, watched youtube videos but any guidance or tips would be greatly appreciated as I've never done anything like this before and would like to do it properly
Thank you all in advance!

1. There is no plastic bin that is large enough, and they are also too shallow to put all your heating and lighting inside. Best to buy a large closed chamber that is designed and built for tortoises. Second best would be to get a large enclosure of some sort and enclose it in a large portable green house.
2. Try a horse trough.
3. 3-4 inches.
4. For as long as you can. The bigger it is before you move it outside full time, the better. You can gradually do more and more outside time as it grows. It can be more of an acclimation period instead of inside one day and outside the next.

 

[TFM]

1. There is no plastic bin that is large enough, and they are also too shallow to put all your heating and lighting inside. Best to buy a large closed chamber that is designed and built for tortoises. Second best would be to get a large enclosure of some sort and enclose it in a large portable green house.
2. Try a horse trough.
3. 3-4 inches.
4. For as long as you can. The bigger it is before you move it outside full time, the better. You can gradually do more and more outside time as it grows. It can be more of an acclimation period instead of inside one day and outside the next.

Thank you!