Horsefield tortoise is lethargic, eyes closed and back legs straight

[danielo88]

Hi,

My horsefield tortoise has been ill the last few months, at first his left eye started closing. I took him to the vet and they gave him antibiotics but he got worse over time. Both eyes are closed and he refuses to eat at all and I noticed his back legs are constantly straight. He livens up when the sun is out and his eye open a bit and he eats the grass but other than. I tried using f10 in his bath water and using a syringe to flush out his nostrils but nothing is working. Any ideas of what this could be?

Thank you!

 

[wellington]

Without more info we can't help.
We need pictures of the enclosure
The exact temps, basking, all over, night.
What exact bulbs are you using for basking, heat, uvb?
Exact diet?
Substrate?
Indoor or outside housing?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

If you can answer wellingtons questions that would be great. Do you know how old they are roughly?

 

[danielo88]

Without more info we can't help.
We need pictures of the enclosure
The exact temps, basking, all over, night.
What exact bulbs are you using for basking, heat, uvb?
Exact diet?
Substrate?
Indoor or outside housing?

Without more info we can't help.
We need pictures of the enclosure
The exact temps, basking, all over, night.
What exact bulbs are you using for basking, heat, uvb?
Exact diet?
Substrate?
Indoor or outside housing?

Thanks for the reply Wellington, so I've got two tortoises the older one is completly fine and active. It's only the smaller one with the darker shell who isn't well hes about 2 years old now (on all photos on my first post).

Symptoms: closed eyes, rarely pooing, legs straight, lethargic, always sleeping and not eating at all unless hes outside in the sun where grazes weeds. His symtoms started about 2.5 months ago.

Bulb: uvb uva 80w 230-240v D3 UV basking lamp

Diet: They only eat lettuce and i add calc dust. I've tried carrots, cucumber, kale and a few others but they're not interested, they only seem to like lettuce.

Housing: indoor housing with the one lamp with top soil throughout and hay in their shelter area. I do take them outside when the sun is out which is rare as it's the UK! But when I do the smaller one does perks up still not 100% but a lot better then he is.

What I've tried: vet has given him a course of antibiotics, I've bathed him everyday for 20-40 mins he's pooed a few times and they've been hard (as mentioned he's rarely pooed since being ill). F10 to flush the nostrils.

I hope this helps!

Thank you!

 

[danielo88]

If you can answer wellingtons questions that would be great. Do you know how old they are roughly?

Hi thanks for the reply, so the little one whose poorly is about 2 years old now, I've replied to Wellington but if you have anymore questions, please let me know! He's been poorly for around 2.5 months so any advice to get the little one better would be a massive help.

Thank you

 

[danielo88]

Thanks for the reply Wellington, so I've got two tortoises the older one is completly fine and active. It's only the smaller one with the darker shell who isn't well hes about 2 years old now (on all photos on my first post).

Symptoms: closed eyes, rarely pooing, legs straight, lethargic, always sleeping and not eating at all unless hes outside in the sun where grazes weeds. His symtoms started about 2.5 months ago.

Bulb: uvb uva 80w 230-240v D3 UV basking lamp

Diet: They only eat lettuce and i add calc dust. I've tried carrots, cucumber, kale and a few others but they're not interested, they only seem to like lettuce.

Housing: indoor housing with the one lamp with top soil throughout and hay in their shelter area. I do take them outside when the sun is out which is rare as it's the UK! But when I do the smaller one does perks up still not 100% but a lot better then he is.

What I've tried: vet has given him a course of antibiotics, I've bathed him everyday for 20-40 mins he's pooed a few times and they've been hard (as mentioned he's rarely pooed since being ill). F10 to flush the nostrils.

I hope this helps!

Thank you!

Without more info we can't help.
We need pictures of the enclosure
The exact temps, basking, all over, night.
What exact bulbs are you using for basking, heat, uvb?
Exact diet?
Substrate?
Indoor or outside housing?

Thanks for the reply Wellington, so I've got two tortoises the older one is completly fine and active. It's only the smaller one with the darker shell who isn't well hes about 2 years old now (on all photos on my first post).

Symptoms: closed eyes, rarely pooing, legs straight, lethargic, always sleeping and not eating at all unless hes outside in the sun where grazes weeds. His symtoms started about 2.5 months ago.

Bulb: uvb uva 80w 230-240v D3 UV basking lamp

Diet: They only eat lettuce and i add calc dust. I've tried carrots, cucumber, kale and a few others but they're not interested, they only seem to like lettuce.

Housing: indoor housing with the one lamp with top soil throughout and hay in their shelter area. I do take them outside when the sun is out which is rare as it's the UK! But when I do the smaller one does perks up still not 100% but a lot better then he is.

What I've tried: vet has given him a course of antibiotics, I've bathed him everyday for 20-40 mins he's pooed a few times and they've been hard (as mentioned he's rarely pooed since being ill). F10 to flush the nostrils.

I hope this helps!

Thank you!

Sorry I forgot to mention temperature. So it's normally around 18c in their room in general (haven't measured temp under lamp so my guess around 20-23c maybe) during the day. It drops to around 14-15c at night, that's when I turn the lamp off.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

What antibiotics did your vet give your tortoise? Did the vet give any diagnosis or guess? Have you separated the tortoises? Has the tortoise been peeing and pooping normally?

I would recommend you keep the ambient heat at about 25 C for the sick tortoise. I would also try some soaks with baby carrot food (1/2 warm water, 1/2 baby carrot food like Gerbers) as long as the tortoises eyes are closed, they usually don't eat. Soaking in baby carrot food will help the tortoise to absorve some nutrients.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you for your reply, there are unfortunately numerous things of concern here with both set up and diet, that is likely leading to the sick tortoise.

First and foremost, tortoise of any species should NEVER be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression. Notice how your sick tortoise is smaller? That’s because one can stunt the others growth which is already happening here, the stress of living together alone is enough to make a tortoise sick and lead to eventual death. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about.

The size of your enclosure isn’t big enough for one let alone two unfortunately, as adults they need a minimum of an 8x4 enclosure, roaming is vital to tortoise health, it aids digestion and strengthen their muscles.
Don’t think they can get away with smaller if allowed to free roam, I’d highly discourage indoor free roams, being away from their heat source means they’re being exposed to temperatures that are too low quite often, smooth surfaces like laminate flooring will wreak absolute havoc on their hip joints over time.
There’s just numerous reasons it isn’t a good idea unfortunately, harmful floor cleaners, foreign objects being swallowed, getting stuck under things they shouldn’t like shelving or sofas, low temperatures, no uv, getting hit by doors, one member has mentioned they knew someone who’s tort got their head crushed in a door jam😣, flipping hazards, smooth services, the list goes on and is endless.
They feel most comfortable and safe in a space that best mimics their natural environment, so an appropriate sized enclosure is always the ultimate goal, hopefully we can help🥰

Their diet needs far more variety, they cannot survive on just lettuce alone, I’ll go more into that at the end.

Lighting is also incorrect and could be causing the eye issues, again I’ll go into that too.

Essentially both need separating a placing into their own individual appropriate sized enclosures.

This is one way to come up with an appropriate indoor set up, including the appropriate indoor uv, levels etc, you’ll probably find different advice elsewhere but I promise you, here is the best more up to date care information, other sources are simply repeating the old outdated incorrect ways.

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. This is especially important for your sick tortoise.

Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes, which is what could be happening here. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon, there’s lots of confusion about uv needing to be on a full 12hours, they don’t get blasted with 12hours of uv in the wild, it’s not needed in captivity. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for and some examples of how to mount them.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The problem with top soil is unless you’ve composted it yourself, you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, it could be something toxic. Sand can irritate the eyes and be an impaction risk, moss is an impaction risk too. The hay you have needs removing as it’s prone to mould and Russians don’t eat this naturally.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed.

I’d personally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, roaming room is vital for tortoise health. The closer you can get to an 8x4 size the better, it can’t be substituted for free roaming.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds, or take a large bookcase, take out the shelves and lie flat, or just make their own, for all these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough! They can be professional escape artists😂

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy to hang their lighting, use a temperature gun to determine how high the basking bulb needs to be, thermostat for CHE’s and the uv I suggested needs to be mounted 18-20 inches from the substrate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct🙂

With yours being younger they may benefit from some higher humidity which you could achieve with a greenhouse topper, it won’t be needed much longer now she’s already two, but thought I’d mention it👍

Two 20-30 minute soaks a week is also recommended, always be there supervising that.

For diet as I’ve said, they need far more of a variation, I’m including a link below I think you’ll find useful to look through, if you click on the wildflower section you’ll find SO many plants that grow perfectly in our uk climate, you could buy seeds online and plant them in some organic soil in a outside planter the tortoises don’t have access to, then forage from them as they grow. Never feed these guys any kind of fruits! Leafy greens and weeds all the way!🙌

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Any further questions, please ask away!🙂

 

[wellington]

First if they are housed together, that needs to be changed. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs.
Basking temp needs to be 95-100F
All over day temp needs to range from 75-80F
Night temp not lower than 60F.
Humidity 50%
Either sun or a tube flourescent for uvb
An incandescent FLOOD bulb for basking
Get them seperated ASAP if they aren't.
Do daily soaks in warm water with baby food carrots and add piedialyte to the soak water too.
You have to improve the diet. You can't just feed lettuce. Calcium should only be given 2-3 times a week a small pinch. To much calcium is as bad as to little.
Broad leafy weed greens, arugula, escarole, cactus, dandelion, to name a few. You can add soaked hay pellets not hay, mazuri pellets.
You have to get them to eat better. It might not be easy, but it's your job.