Lady And The Tramp Tort Style

DARKFIRE007

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before.jpg after.jpg lady and the trampt tort style.jpg
Imagine my surprise when BOTH just vanished...I immediately started laughing and snapped both pics. No worries, I put it back (gently). The third photo is the reason for the thread name...they are inseparable, they eat together and sleep together. Most of the time one will climb half way on top of the other and literally sleep there. I have not caught them mating yet, and yes I am sure one is male and the other female. At any rate, I wanted to introduce Boris and Natalya...(Goldeneye fans just smiled).
 

TechnoCheese

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While it looks cute, everything you just described is tortoise aggression, and they need to be separated.
Most tortoises, especially Russians, are very territorial, and do not need or want friends. They only see them as mates or competitors, and will often fight to the death.
“Cuddling” is one trying to push the other out of it’s hiding spot, along with climbing on top of each other.
Why not to keep 2 tortoises together - a lesson learned the hard way
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php...gether---a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/

Please take a look at these links and come back with questions-
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/
Beginner Mistakes
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/
 

DARKFIRE007

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I am aware of these concerns and have seen those links. I am keeping a close eye also because the males can kill a female by mating repeatedly since she can not escape. I use a divider when I am not present and they are separate (both still have access to everything needed though). When I allow them to be together I watch carefully, they do not bite each other or fight over the basking area. When one sleeps on another it is in the open and out of the basking area, I do not allow it in the basking area or in hides. I am pleased with the balance of solitude and company I have struck. If you look, those are two different enclosures...one is just for roaming and climbing, the other has the basic setup. IF it becomes a problem, I have the means to separate them for good.
 

DARKFIRE007

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If you have the means to separate them and give them each an appropriate 8'x4' minimum enclosure then do it!

I will separate them for good only when I feel it is appropriate to do so. One of the first lines in the referenced threads was "there are exceptions". They have plenty of room and have never bit me or each other and are supervised when together. They also do not push or claw at one and other. I posted these photo's to introduce them, not to defend their living conditions which are a FAR sight better than when I got them. The female was starved and given to me in a container no bigger than her after being in a bin I would consider not big enough to cook my dinner with no basking lamp or hide, no cuttle bone, no food, no water dish at a reptile show. I am confident in my care to this point and will upgrade or adjust things as needed and as I see fit.

Not one positive comment...smh..
 

TechnoCheese

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I will separate them for good only when I feel it is appropriate to do so. One of the first lines in the referenced threads was "there are exceptions". They have plenty of room and have never bit me or each other and are supervised when together. They also do not push or claw at one and other. I posted these photo's to introduce them, not to defend their living conditions which are a FAR sight better than when I got them. The female was starved and given to me in a container no bigger than her after being in a bin I would consider not big enough to cook my dinner with no basking lamp or hide, no cuttle bone, no food, no water dish at a reptile show. I am confident in my care to this point and will upgrade or adjust things as needed and as I see fit.

Not one positive comment...smh..

The exceptions are when both tortoises are female, and they have an enclosure bigger than 8x4 feet. Even then, it is highly unlikely that they will get along.
Them being rescues does not excuse this. You are putting two highly territorial tortoises together, and hoping that they will be friends. They never will, and just having them together causes unneeded stress. The most they will ever do is tolerate each other.
Bullying isn’t always physical. Tortoises bully mentally, in ways we cannot see or notice.
We do not mean to be rude, and have your tortoises best interest in mind. I hope you have a good day :)
 

DARKFIRE007

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The exceptions are when both tortoises are female, and they have an enclosure bigger than 8x4 feet. Even then, it is highly unlikely that they will get along.
Them being rescues does not excuse this. You are putting two highly territorial tortoises together, and hoping that they will be friends. They never will, and just having them together causes unneeded stress. The most they will ever do is tolerate each other.
Bullying isn’t always physical. Tortoises bully mentally, in ways we cannot see or notice.
We do not mean to be rude, and have your tortoises best interest in mind. I hope you have a good day :)

What part of "always separated when I am not present to supervise" is not being heard? They encounter each other in the wild and separate after either fighting or mating yes? So explain to me how that is different from what I am doing minus the benefit of me not allowing them to do either? For now they get along fine, if that changes I will take the appropriate steps and stop contact. In the meantime I will not take heat for allowing them to be around each other for an hour or two a day.
 

TechnoCheese

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What part of "always separated when I am not present to supervise" is not being heard? They encounter each other in the wild and separate after either fighting or mating yes? So explain to me how that is different from what I am doing minus the benefit of me not allowing them to do either? For now they get along fine, if that changes I will take the appropriate steps and stop contact. In the meantime I will not take heat for allowing them to be around each other for an hour or two a day.

Oh, I am very sorry. I seem to have misunderstood. I thought you were saying that you leave them together, but sometimes supervise.
 

DARKFIRE007

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Oh, I am very sorry. I seem to have misunderstood. I thought you were saying that you leave them together, but sometimes supervise.

No...God no. He is never around her without me watching. You are however right about the size of the enclosure, so far my max build is 60x20 inches, one in two different rooms...which is the max I can do indoors. 8x4 isn't doable indoors for me. I am in the process of doing one a bit bigger than 8x4 for my back porch which is large enough, but here in the south I have to be cautious of harmful heat and bitter cold at times, predators like raccoons and rats and so on...it will be just a giant play area. Between the two I think they will be alright. It is the frickin substrate that is giving me the runs...
 

TechnoCheese

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No...God no. He is never around her without me watching. You are however right about the size of the enclosure, so far my max build is 60x20 inches, one in two different rooms...which is the max I can do indoors. 8x4 isn't doable indoors for me. I am in the process of doing one a bit bigger than 8x4 for my back porch which is large enough, but here in the south I have to be cautious of harmful heat and bitter cold at times, predators like raccoons and rats and so on...it will be just a giant play area. Between the two I think they will be alright. It is the frickin substrate that is giving me the runs...

Is there a way you could do it double decker, or make it go around a corner in an “L” shape?
 

trickspiration

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View attachment 229109 View attachment 229110 View attachment 229111
Imagine my surprise when BOTH just vanished...I immediately started laughing and snapped both pics. No worries, I put it back (gently). The third photo is the reason for the thread name...they are inseparable, they eat together and sleep together. Most of the time one will climb half way on top of the other and literally sleep there. I have not caught them mating yet, and yes I am sure one is male and the other female. At any rate, I wanted to introduce Boris and Natalya...(Goldeneye fans just smiled).

They are incredibly gorgeous Russian torts, I'd say!
 

DARKFIRE007

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Is there a way you could do it double decker, or make it go around a corner in an “L” shape?

I was lucky to do the boxes...I am far from a carpenter, I was simply elated I didn't screw up the screened tops. Waterproofing the inside for moist substrate was a pain in the REAR. An L shape was an idea but furniture prevents it. They are eating at the moment, and I am nursing bloody fingers. If God is a woman, hammers were her joke on men lol.
 

DARKFIRE007

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They are incredibly gorgeous Russian torts, I'd say!

Thank you, I am especially proud of the females progress, her shell has improved greatly in a short time and is gorgeous I think. When I got her it was dull looking, almost overnight she gained the pretty yellowish green and it really shows her shell off.
 

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