What are the signs of MBD? What does it look like?
MBD?
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Maggie Cummings
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Weak legs, sunken in dorsal scute, softer feeling carapace...I'm not too good with MBD, but here's a picture of Toby who had MBD so bad he couldn't raise himself up to walk. He was rescued and sent to live in Alabama I think and is walking and active and just a great tort from what I'm told.
Just a hint:When you say, "Here's a picture..." Then that statement is usually accompanied by a picture!
Haha. I completely missed that one. Didn't even bother looking for a pic :]
Are there ever any cases of under/overbite with mbd ?
Are there ever any cases of under/overbite with mbd ?
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Maggie Cummings
Guest
Scary, isn't it! Serious case of CRS...here it is Jordan...
http://turtlerescues.com/images/Sulcata _Toby.jpg
http://turtlerescues.com/images/Sulcata _Toby.jpg
OK, I'll bite.
What is CRS?
I'm so glad you found a good home for Toby...photos like that make me cringe. I hope he manages to live well now even if he can't live long.
Jordan, E.J. said something similar on a recent post: MBD is characterized by joint weakness and the shell has a particular sound you can hear when you tap it...I think he said it's light and hollow as opposed to heavy and solid. Now I'm going to go find his quote before my 30-minute window is up!
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So, I asked, What are the symptoms of MBD, and what does a tortoise afflicted with MBD look like?
and Ed answered, "There is the obvious malformed shell... not necessarily pyramiding. The legs cannot support the animal. Those are the obvious.
What I like to use is a 'tap' test. I lightly tap the shell... if it sounds solid and sharp... it is good... if it sounds hollow and dull... not good.
The best way to hear the difference is to try this with a tortoise that you know has a thin shell and one that you know has a good shell. Once you hear the difference there is no mistaking it.
Keep in mind that there are different levels of MBD.
You got it in that MBD is more serious than pyramiding. If caught early and the joints have not been effected... just add calcium and D3 in whatever form."
What is CRS?
I'm so glad you found a good home for Toby...photos like that make me cringe. I hope he manages to live well now even if he can't live long.
Jordan, E.J. said something similar on a recent post: MBD is characterized by joint weakness and the shell has a particular sound you can hear when you tap it...I think he said it's light and hollow as opposed to heavy and solid. Now I'm going to go find his quote before my 30-minute window is up!
*******************************************************************************************
So, I asked, What are the symptoms of MBD, and what does a tortoise afflicted with MBD look like?
and Ed answered, "There is the obvious malformed shell... not necessarily pyramiding. The legs cannot support the animal. Those are the obvious.
What I like to use is a 'tap' test. I lightly tap the shell... if it sounds solid and sharp... it is good... if it sounds hollow and dull... not good.
The best way to hear the difference is to try this with a tortoise that you know has a thin shell and one that you know has a good shell. Once you hear the difference there is no mistaking it.
Keep in mind that there are different levels of MBD.
You got it in that MBD is more serious than pyramiding. If caught early and the joints have not been effected... just add calcium and D3 in whatever form."
Remember- MBD is not a single medical issue. According the Dr. Mader in the book "Reptile Medicine and Surgery", there are at least 11 conditions in two main categories- nutritional (NMBD) and renal (RMBD).
One of the most common, especially in tortoises, is 'Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism' (NSHP)- too little available calcium, which includes too much phosphorous, and inadequate vitamin D. This is a major cause of soft shell, 'rubber jaw' (jaw and skull deformities), etc. It also contributes to prolapses, skeletal/muscular deformities, and more.
The early symptoms can be subtle and may include weakened limbs or a soft or deformed jaw. Usually by the time we find a soft shell, it has gone on for a while.
The cure starts with identifying exactly what kind of MDB it is. If it is NMDB, the next step is to figure out what had been happening wrong so it can be corrected. A vet would take an X-ray to help diagnose the issue, then offer vitamin D and special calcium formula support over a course of several visits.
You can self-treat, although the more serious cases or the inexperienced keeper should probably see a vet.
It is a slow healing process, and some of the deformities will not go away and can cause problems throughout the animal's life (depending on what the deformities were).
[Note- I apparently was writing this as Stepanie added her and EJ's nicely done comments. I like the shell tap idea!
One of the most common, especially in tortoises, is 'Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism' (NSHP)- too little available calcium, which includes too much phosphorous, and inadequate vitamin D. This is a major cause of soft shell, 'rubber jaw' (jaw and skull deformities), etc. It also contributes to prolapses, skeletal/muscular deformities, and more.
The early symptoms can be subtle and may include weakened limbs or a soft or deformed jaw. Usually by the time we find a soft shell, it has gone on for a while.
The cure starts with identifying exactly what kind of MDB it is. If it is NMDB, the next step is to figure out what had been happening wrong so it can be corrected. A vet would take an X-ray to help diagnose the issue, then offer vitamin D and special calcium formula support over a course of several visits.
You can self-treat, although the more serious cases or the inexperienced keeper should probably see a vet.
It is a slow healing process, and some of the deformities will not go away and can cause problems throughout the animal's life (depending on what the deformities were).
[Note- I apparently was writing this as Stepanie added her and EJ's nicely done comments. I like the shell tap idea!
M
Maggie Cummings
Guest
I had nothing to do with rescuing Toby. I have a friend in New York who runs a large tortoise rescue and she got him and turned him around then adopted him out. Julie rescued him, I just use his picture...and evidently forget the link...CRS...can't remember s***
maggie3fan said:
Well, that photo is worth a thousand words...all of them entreating keepers to never let their tortoises become like Toby!
Hey! I suffer from CRS too--and I'll bet a few more of the members here are similarly afflicted.
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