Mucus in tortoise feces?

[Avuwyy]

Just a question of curiosity. I have recently began giving my tortoise nutrazu in order to get him to eat hay as no matter how small I cut it up he will go out of his way to shovel it off any food he’s eating. So I’ve been introducing a few new foods to him, and I’m just wanting to make sure this is a common thing when altering a tortoise’s diet. But whenever he defecates in his soaks, white mucusy stuff comes out first, followed by his stool.

This mucus is white, but not really worm looking. It is stringy but it only comes out during the first push as he is defecating, and no other stool has this so I’d assume with worms they would be more frequent throughout his bowel movements (Instead of just picking to show themselves each time he first opens his bowels). It might be worth noting I used to see urates a lot when I first got him, perhaps due to the bad conditions he was being kept in at the time (Grainy urates), but now I don’t see those same urates. If these are urates then they don’t look like any urates I’ve seen in images…

Once he’s finished his soak I’ll make sure to pull it from his bath and lay it out on a piece of toilet roll just to show what I mean (If it will show on toilet roll). But in the meantime, is mucus normal for tortoise’s to pass when defecating? I’d assume a little bit is normal… This may be due to dietary changes as I did note changes to his diet above.

Sorry if this is everywhere, struggling a bit with my ability to type and comprehend my own typing right now. Any information on fecal mucus, or other possibilities in the meantime would be greatly appreciated (gives me stuff to research and familiarise myself with). Thanking you all!

 

[Avuwyy]

Actually, now that I’ve actually stuck my hand in and touched it, it is very stringy. It looked a lot more floaty in the water (it will do, duh). But I’m still a bit Hmm on whether it is parasites or not. There is only ever one in every bowel movement, and again, it is only released when he opens his bowels. There is nothing like this in the middle or at the end of his soaks, all the images I’ve seen online they are thriving in all parts of the feces…

I’ll attach a picture below. I just want to make sure this isn’t of any concern. If not I’ll sort out a vet appointment right away to treat it…

Also, additional note. He is gaining weight, he has growth lines, he is eating well, he is currently sitting atop a mix of nutrazu and hay that I sneakily mixed together (his eyes are half plastered with the stuff), I haven’t really seen him drink during his soaks but I make sure he has full time access to water which I clean out every day and refill whenever it is low, he wakes me up several times in the night stomping about the enclosure so he is fairly active. If it weren’t for this I wouldn’t be questioning his health at all, but alas.

Once again, thank you!

 

[Avuwyy]

Going to bump this by also asking if it’s normal for tortoise’s nails to curve inwards, and cross like this… His nails have been like this for a while and I have never thought much of it but it does look abnormal when I reference other leopard tortoises.

His first digit curls towards the inside of his foot, whilst his other four curl in toward the inside of his body. I ended up trimming a few of his nails because their length was concerning me (Which is why the nails of his back feet are blunt looking). He does have a slate but I think with them curling like they are it isn’t doing much to grind them down. Both front feet have the exact same issue.

He walks normally. In fact if I put him on the ground for 10 seconds whilst I grab the scale behind me I end up needing to pick myself up and draw him back towards me because he is so eager to race off after soaks. He walks quite strongly with his belly lifted from the ground.

Would it be worth trimming all of his fore claws down as much as I can and letting the slate keep them trim?

He is currently on newspaper because I’m 90% pretty sure he has a heavy parasite load (From the previous posts it might be obvious) and I’ll be taking him to the vets on Monday and won’t have the time to empty his enclosure of substrate before then. But he was on top soil before the newspaper so I’d think it’s not because of him walking on hard ground?

Also apologies about the three essays. I over explain frequently. If a drawing of the issue is needed for clearer reference I can provide that.

Thank you once more

 

[zovick]

Actually, now that I’ve actually stuck my hand in and touched it, it is very stringy. It looked a lot more floaty in the water (it will do, duh). But I’m still a bit Hmm on whether it is parasites or not. There is only ever one in every bowel movement, and again, it is only released when he opens his bowels. There is nothing like this in the middle or at the end of his soaks, all the images I’ve seen online they are thriving in all parts of the feces…

I’ll attach a picture below. I just want to make sure this isn’t of any concern. If not I’ll sort out a vet appointment right away to treat it…

Also, additional note. He is gaining weight, he has growth lines, he is eating well, he is currently sitting atop a mix of nutrazu and hay that I sneakily mixed together (his eyes are half plastered with the stuff), I haven’t really seen him drink during his soaks but I make sure he has full time access to water which I clean out every day and refill whenever it is low, he wakes me up several times in the night stomping about the enclosure so he is fairly active. If it weren’t for this I wouldn’t be questioning his health at all, but alas.

Once again, thank you!

View attachment 342044

Looks like a parasitic worm.

 

[zovick]

Going to bump this by also asking if it’s normal for tortoise’s nails to curve inwards, and cross like this… His nails have been like this for a while and I have never thought much of it but it does look abnormal when I reference other leopard tortoises.

His first digit curls towards the inside of his foot, whilst his other four curl in toward the inside of his body. I ended up trimming a few of his nails because their length was concerning me (Which is why the nails of his back feet are blunt looking). He does have a slate but I think with them curling like they are it isn’t doing much to grind them down. Both front feet have the exact same issue.

He walks normally. In fact if I put him on the ground for 10 seconds whilst I grab the scale behind me I end up needing to pick myself up and draw him back towards me because he is so eager to race off after soaks. He walks quite strongly with his belly lifted from the ground.

Would it be worth trimming all of his fore claws down as much as I can and letting the slate keep them trim?

He is currently on newspaper because I’m 90% pretty sure he has a heavy parasite load (From the previous posts it might be obvious) and I’ll be taking him to the vets on Monday and won’t have the time to empty his enclosure of substrate before then. But he was on top soil before the newspaper so I’d think it’s not because of him walking on hard ground?

Also apologies about the three essays. I over explain frequently. If a drawing of the issue is needed for clearer reference I can provide that.

Thank you once more

The nails do not look normal. They are not being worn down as they would be on a wild tortoise. I would recommend cutting them back in stages until they are about half the length they are now. You need to do it in stages because if you do it all at once, you will hit the quick and make them bleed.

 

[Avuwyy]

Looks like a parasitic worm.

The nails do not look normal. They are not being worn down as they would be on a wild tortoise. I would recommend cutting them back in stages until they are about half the length they are now. You need to do it in stages because if you do it all at once, you will hit the quick and make them bleed.

Thank you for your responses

I’ll be taking him to the vets on Monday so he should be starting a course of medicine for the parasites soon then. Thankful I made the decision to call the vets just to make sure.

And that’s what I thought. He does walk across his slate a lot as I make sure it’s in a place he would need to pass to enter his other hides or get to water, but I suppose with how they are curled it wouldn’t do anything for his claws until they are trimmed back and the tips are actually touching the slate. I’ll trim them back before his meal later on and offer a little update of what they are looking like.

In the case I do accidentally cut the quick (I shouldn’t do as I was fine last time, and constantly trim my cat’s claws without issue), would Tamodine be fine to apply to the wound to prevent infection?

Once more, thank you for your responses. I really appreciate the help

 

[zovick]

Thank you for your responses

I’ll be taking him to the vets on Monday so he should be starting a course of medicine for the parasites soon then. Thankful I made the decision to call the vets just to make sure.

And that’s what I thought. He does walk across his slate a lot as I make sure it’s in a place he would need to pass to enter his other hides or get to water, but I suppose with how they are curled it wouldn’t do anything for his claws until they are trimmed back and the tips are actually touching the slate. I’ll trim them back before his meal later on and offer a little update of what they are looking like.

In the case I do accidentally cut the quick (I shouldn’t do as I was fine last time, and constantly trim my cat’s claws without issue), would Tamodine be fine to apply to the wound to prevent infection?

Once more, thank you for your responses. I really appreciate the help

Not that familiar with Tamodine. It sounds as though it should be OK. Over here, I simply use Kwik-Stop to stop any bleeding on my dogs' nails when they are trimmed. If you are reasonably careful, you shouldn't hit the quick, though.

 

[Avuwyy]

I’ll have to have a look around for something like that in the future just to have it on hand

I cut the nails I was able to wrap the clippers around (Difficult due to how the nails are growing), it took nearly an hour to do and seems to have stressed him out a lot. I ended up having to put my finger inside of his shell to try and keep his legs outside of his shell because any time I touched his nails he would retreat and I wouldn’t be able to cut them, and I ended up poking his eye. It doesn’t appear to have caused any damage but he is really upset about it.

Didn’t hit the quick on the nails I cut thankfully, but he did retreat into his shell when I had the clippers almost closed on the nail which spooked me a little as it made a sharp sound which made me think that, as he pulled his foot, I had tore the nail out. But it appears to still be intact.

The two nails which are crossed (First digits of each foot) I wasn’t able to get no matter what I did. So I’ll need to figure out a way to clip these nails specifically. I did some research beforehand and some people file the nails down? Is this a good option for me considering my tortoise’s size and how thin his nails are?

I’ve put him back into his enclosure with a small amount of Nutrazu and Pre Alpin for now, just as I know he really enjoys the Nutrazu and it may help calm him down a little having something to eat after the whole ordeal…

Thank you for informing me about the need for his nails to be trimmed. It means a lot.

 

[Lyn W]

Don't forget to take a fresh poop sample to the vet, they shouldn't prescribe meds until they check it and know for sure what it is.

 

[Avuwyy]

Don't forget to take a fresh poop sample to the vet, they shouldn't prescribe meds until they check it and know for sure what it is.

Right right, I’ll make sure to note this down for tomorrow ! And only take Panacur or Flagyl depending on the parasite found, correct? (Just incase I’m having to refuse medicine)

 

[Lyn W]

Right right, I’ll make sure to note this down for tomorrow ! And only take Panacur or Flagyl depending on the parasite found, correct? (Just incase I’m having to refuse medicine)

It may take a few days for the results to come back so you may not have any meds until then. You don't want to start your tort on anything he doesn't need.
I don't know about the meds, I believe Flagyl is an antibiotic so I would think it's unlikely you'll have that for parasites, but @zovick can tell you more about that side of things.

 

[Lyn W]

Just thinking about your diet - my leopard is about 10 but he has never wanted to eat hay and I think other leopard keepers find the same. It may be a bit tough for a young tort.
He also won't touch nutrazu even when soaked unless disguised.
So I would change his diet to leafy greens. Florette Classic crispy is good but expensive. I use a crispy mix salad (blue bag from Aldi 57p ish) which has a mix of 4 reasonable leaves, and I add things like pak choi, kale, lambs lettuce, spring greens etc for variety. The weeds will be back soon!
I also buy a product called Readigrass (online Pets at Home) and I grind that up quite finely in a blender (Lola has his own) and then I sprinkle it onto wet leaves to add fibre.

Is it possible the stringy bits in his poop is undigested hay?

 

[zovick]

It may take a few days for the results to come back so you may not have any meds until then. You don't want to start your tort on anything he doesn't need.
I don't know about the meds, I believe Flagyl is an antibiotic so I would think it's unlikely you'll have that for parasites, but @zovick can tell you more about that side of things.

Flagyl is classed as an antibiotic used to treat bacterial and some protozoan infections. If there are worms in a tortoise's stool, Panacur is usually the medication of choice. It is classified as an antihelmintic as opposed to an antibiotic.

 

[Avuwyy]

It may take a few days for the results to come back so you may not have any meds until then. You don't want to start your tort on anything he doesn't need.
I don't know about the meds, I believe Flagyl is an antibiotic so I would think it's unlikely you'll have that for parasites, but @zovick can tell you more about that side of things.

Last time I went in for parasites they managed to nab the results within 10 minutes of my being there, hoping it will be the same this time. If not that’s perfectly fine. And I see… I was under the assumption that Panacur was for parasites such as hookworm, roundworm, and tapeworm, and Flagyl was for uhhhhhh Protozoan (Unsure if that’s the term) parasites? If I’m wrong I’ll need to recheck for tomorrow incase I do receive the results on the day and they go over the treatment plan with me.

Just thinking about your diet - my leopard is about 10 but he has never wanted to eat hay and I think other leopard keepers find the same. It may be a bit tough for a young tort.
He also won't touch nutrazu even when soaked unless disguised.
So I would change his diet to leafy greens. Florette Classic crispy is good but expensive. I use a crispy mix salad (blue bag from Aldi 57p ish) which has a mix of 4 reasonable leaves, and I add things like pak choi, kale, lambs lettuce, spring greens etc for variety. The weeds will be back soon!
I also buy a product called Readigrass (online Pets at Home) and I grind that up quite finely in a blender (Lola has his own) and then I sprinkle it onto wet leaves to add fibre.

Is it possible the stringy bits in his poop is undigested hay?

He was previously on a diet strictly of the florette crispy (lambs lettuce, radicchio, frisée), kale, spring greens, rocket, pak choy, romaine, and campanula (When we got our house we had it growing naturally all over the back garden. Thrives through the winter, I’m a lucky duck for it). I found that his stool wasn’t firm? This might have been the beginning of the parasites beginning to become an issue internally, but I did find once I added the nutrazu and pre alpin that his stool firmed up a bit, so was thinking this would be beneficial for him.

Today he had a small amount of pre alpin, topping some rocket and lambs lettuce, and later during the day I’ll be giving him a small amount of prickly pear just to recover lost water. Yesterday he had his first dandelion leaf of 2022, seemed quite overjoyed to have access to them again.

I’ll feed a mix of it all during whatever treatment he ends up getting, and do a bit of experimenting with his diet afterwards maybe. I do know that he does have undigested hay in his stool, but I assumed that was normal in any animal which eats hay (Maybe not, but when I searched ‘healthy tortoise droppings’ I saw quite a few with undigested hay within it).

I’ll give readigrass a look! I think in the past I had a peek at it but wasn’t sure if it was suitable for tortoises (Not sure why I didn’t think it was suitable). We have our own blender for Herbie too haha, haven’t used it in a while though… Will give myself reason to by grabbing myself some readigrass perhaps.

Also! No it’s not undigested hay. I was questioning that a few days ago, but he’s started to have really bad diarrhoea too and passing more (smaller) worms in his soaks. The hay in his stool is quite firm, keeps its shape, is a brownish colour, and either lies flat in his stool or floats directly atop the water. The stringy bits are a pale white and either wave about from his stool in the water, or freely float about the water.

 

[Avuwyy]

Flagyl is classed as an antibiotic used to treat bacterial and some protozoan infections. If there are worms in a tortoise's stool, Panacur is usually the medication of choice. It is classified as an antihelmintic as opposed to an antibiotic.

Thank you for clarifying! Wasn’t quite sure !

 

[Avuwyy]

I hope his treatment goes well and ends quickly. He seems to be missing his usual substrate a bit. Woke up a few times last night to him turning the pages of his newspaper, probably intrigued as to why I bought the Daily Mail instead of the Echo lol.

 

[Lyn W]

Last time I went in for parasites they managed to nab the results within 10 minutes of my being there, hoping it will be the same this time. If not that’s perfectly fine. And I see… I was under the assumption that Panacur was for parasites such as hookworm, roundworm, and tapeworm, and Flagyl was for uhhhhhh Protozoan (Unsure if that’s the term) parasites? If I’m wrong I’ll need to recheck for tomorrow incase I do receive the results on the day and they go over the treatment plan with me.

I’ll give readigrass a look! I think in the past I had a peek at it but wasn’t sure if it was suitable for tortoises (Not sure why I didn’t think it was suitable). We have our own blender for Herbie too haha, haven’t used it in a while though… Will give myself reason to by grabbing myself some readigrass perhaps.

It's good to get results so soon and zovick has cleared up the meds question so hopefully all will be well with your little one soon.

I like Readigrass because it is greener than hay. Lola still wouldn't eat it if I just presented him with a plate of it though.
He doesn't even really graze on fresh grass either, he only eats it when he's trying to get at the clover growing in it.
Good luck at the vet's!

 

[Avuwyy]

Thank you for the well wishes.

We went to the vet and they prescribed one dose (That doesn’t sound right…) of 10% Panacur (0.10ml), and I went out and bought a cucumber just to administer his medicine as he loves it, and he’s refusing to take it, and I don’t know what to do. I haven’t fed him today so he should be really hungry by now but all he’s interested in is retreating to his hide.

I made a mental note to purchase some panacur to give a second dose myself because one dose for a heavy load of parasites (And eggs which this… Doesnt kill) really doesn’t sound correct (And I have the dosage written down for me so I now know what’s safe to be administered). But I’m worried now that he won’t take the panacur just due to how he’s acting now with his food. I know a dose is considered a dose, but if he leaves a little bit of the panacur, will it cause the parasites to build a resistance or just… Not die?

A tad worried about the situation. Any help would be lovely..