Multi-level enclosure

[chairman]

I am looking to make a new indoor home for my Home's hingebacks. Right now they are in 2' x 4' tables, but I was hoping to go bigger for the new one (they're fully grown, I believe, at 6-7"). Space is a bit limited, so I was considering expanding vertically. However, I really have yet to see anyone who has tried this approach on a grand scale. Any thoughts? Any pictures?

To address the most common concerns, hingebacks love humidity so having a partially closed-in basement shouldn't be a problem. Also, as long as I keep the heat sources on the top level, the floor of the top level should be adequate to create a cooler zone beneath it. I have a thermostat I can play with positioning to get the temps right. My hingebacks are also shade lovers, so a nicely shaded level will appeal to them.

Mike

 

[Kadaan]

Have you seen the common above-tank basking areas made for aquatic turtles? Something similar could work for a two-story tortoise table. Just build a platform covering 50-75% of the table and make a ramp from the bottom to the top. Caves and tunnels would be a good way to increase surface area for your torts to wander as well.

Examples:
- http://www.turtletimes.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45936
- http://www.turtletimes.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69779

 

[Yvonne G]

Several of our member have made two-story habitats for babies, but I don't know as anyone here has made one for a full grown tortoise. There are quite a few pictures of the two-storys, but I couldn't find a quick link for you. Take a look under enclosures...they might be named something like "new habitat for xxx" or some such.

Yvonne

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Hey Mike: I just happened upon this old post with a picture of a two story habitat:

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-353.html

Yvonne

 

[chairman]

Thanks for the responses and links. The second story idea may be one I have to go with, but I was really hoping to give my torts more space than that. My original setup was just like some of the other "multi-level" homes that a lot of people have set up where each tortoise has its own shelf. My goal was to increase their overall square footage while remaining in the same footprint.

Mike

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The new enclosure is now in the works, but luckily my construction design involves placing the "shelves" last. Right now my goal is to make it 4 stories tall, which would give my torts a rough floospace of 32 sq ft in an 8 sq ft footprint (the ramps will either "add" floorspace due to their hypotenudal length OR subtract space because they're not flat and will inhibit movement beneath them).

Since my torts are both boys I may need to divide that up, though. One of them is a little aggressive. I may place removable dividers to see if they can live in peace, but separate them if necessary. The divider placement does pose an interesting issue, though. There are lots of ways to divide the area- a 4 story house with 2'x2' floors is where I'm leaning. Any thoughts? I know a lot of people prefer wide areas over long areas to keep the torts from pacing, and the 2x2 would maximize width for each level. However, I could make other splits. My largest consideration is that I am planning to place all the lighting/heating above the enclosure, meaning that the hot spot will be on the 4th floor, which each lower floor getting cooler. With this design, both torts should really get access to all the same levels to benefit from the temperature gradient. (I'll have to let the enclosure sit empty for a couple days to see just how the temperatures distribute.) Look forward to responses!

Mike

 

[chairman]

Update time!

I've been working on the new enclosure for quite a while now and it is *almost* finished. Quick reminder to all, my tortoises are Home's hingebacks, stay small, and can do well in vivs. From the bottom up...

The enclosure starts with a a ~4' x ~2' x ~2' cabinet setting on casters that have a 1000 lb capacity. This allow me to move everything a LOT easier than the last one. The cabinet houses wiring, a pump/filter, and the thermostat.

From there I built a wooden frame (cannibalized from last shelving unit used to hold tort tables) that provides support for my torts' actual living space, which is made of plexiglass (much of which was cannibalized from their old plexi tort tables). Support beams are made of some spare plastic lumber I had for another project. The enclosure is 4' x 2' x 3'. There are 4 floors, the bottom being 4' x 2' and each of the upper floors 32" x 2'. The vertical walls on the 4' dimension are made of a single, solid piece of plexi. The vertical walls on the 2' dimension are screened doors that go the entire 3' height (though they are bi-fold to make for easier access). I do have plexi that I can replace the screen with, but I am concerned about air flow and trapping excess heat so I'm going to stick with the screen unless that becomes a problem. There are 8" wide ramps that go up both ends of the enclosure (just in case I have to split it in half to separate my torts). They are removable from the top just in case! Those ramps are set at a 15 degree angle and will have coco bark glued to them for traction. Including the ramps, and assuming my torts do not decide to suddenly dislike climbing because I'm "forcing" them to, my torts should have access to 29.3 sq feet of space in a 4' x 2' footprint. (Half that if I have to separate them.)

The bottom two floors feature a built-in water bowl. My pump in the cabinet sends water to the 2nd floor which spouts it from the ceiling. The water will collect in a pool and drain when it reaches a depth of 1.5", as that is the height of the drain pipe I have placed in the floor. This drain pipe feeds the pool on the first floor, which will get to a depth of 1.75" before draining back into a filtration system. Each watering area is 2' x 1' (they extend the entire 2' width of the enclosure). A couple inches behind each supporting wall for the water dish is a secondary water barrier that I plan to fill with a "clean" substrate like frog moss to help keep the messier substrates from being dragged into the water. (My drain pipes should be large enough to allow most debris, and my pre-filter should catch big chunks.)

The only thing that the third floor features is the thermostat's sensor probe. My plan is for the top floor to be the hot floor and all of the other floors to get gradually cooler. The fourth floor is boring, but is taller than the others, so I am going to try and plant it with small bushy things. (Most floors are 8" tall- plenty tall enough for me to reach in there, but short enough for them to feel secure, I hope). Here's the floorplan (poorly done, I'm no paint artist) View attachment floorplan.bmp

On top of this monstrosity is a wooden light hood. It is removable. This houses 2 CHE and one 36" fluorescent light. The CHEs position can be adjusted. Right now it is open at the top- I'm concerned about trapping heat and not getting enough fresh air. I have some materials available to seal up the top if necessary. Even with a lid, the whole thing isn't going to get much taller than 6' overall.

In terms of electrical (here's a terrible diagram View attachment wiring.bmp), I will have 1 switched and 1 unswitched outlet in the cabinet. The unswitched outlet will always be hot as long as my enclosure is plugged into the wall. This outlet gets the thermostat plugged into it, and thus also my CHEs. The switched outlet will contain my pump and the fluorescent, which is plugged in via a timer. Most of the cage is wired up with 12 guage solid, though I had to revert to some 14 stranded for the wall plug. 12-2 just isn't attractive or easy to manipulate when used as a cord.

Now that construction is mostly complete, I am going to let the enclosure sit empty while I figure out what I need to tweak to get the temps and humidity right. I imagine that lowering the CHEs, installing a roof, and moving my thermostat probe might be in order.

And... I think that's it. I'll decorate with hides and plants. Also, I will post pics of the actual enclosure once I get it set up. Hopefully my torts will find it to be a perfectly acceptable home for when they can't be outside.

 

[Yvonne G]

Sounds great! Can't wait to see your pictures of the final product.

 

[chairman]

Well, it isn't quite ready for my torts yet, but it is "done" structurally. I'm pretty much down to tweaking the temperatures and adding substrate/plants.

From the front:

Side view (with door open):

 

[jdawn]

WOW, really great looking (and roomy) enclosure~ well done!!!
We did a somewhat similar multi-level idea for our two ferret's 'condo' (they get lots of run around room too). It will be fun to hear how much your little guys enjoy it! Thanks for sharing, JD

 

[redreatta]

thats really cool looking.i look forward to seeing the finished product

 

[tortoisenerd]

Wow that is quite a masterpiece! Have they been in an enclosure with the clear sides before? Any idea how they will react to that? What about forgoing the substrate on the ramps and building in some little stoppers so it is less slippery? I have a feeling that with them climbing you may find all the substrate will disappointing and it could be slippery. Looking forward to seeing some torts in there! That is so amazing. Best wishes.

 

[sammi]

Looks awesome! Good job =] Hope the little ones like it!

 

[chairman]

Thanks for all the comments. The boys actually got to go in the enclosure last night for the first time. They sure were happy to get out of the rubbermaid bins I had to keep them in until it was done. They seem to be navigating it quite well, no problems climbing up or falling down ramps, and have even refrained from bothering one another (even after accidentally meeting). Here's hoping I won't have to install the dividers after all.

To respond to Kate, they have lived in plexi tortoise tables for the last 6 or 7 years, give or take, so they're used to the "clear wall" concept. When I originally put together the tables I knew they needed high humidity and didn't imagine that even sealed plywood would hold up for long. It was after I already had plexi homes that I learned about the shower curtain/pond liner approach. But in the end I'm glad I went with the plexi because it is lighter, gives me an opportunity to watch them without having to loom over them, and I think it contributed to them being as social as they are.

As for the ramps, I have the layer of substrate glued in place. So far traction doesn't seem to be an issue. When I applied the glue I put it in a pattern that angles up the ramp at the bottom, is horizontal in the middle, and angles towards the exit at the top, in the hope that even if they manage to get everything off it except what it held down by glue then they'll still have a realistic grip. If it fails, I will go with stoppers.

For lessons learned:
I had all sorts of problems with getting my grand plan with the pump/filter/waterfall working. I kept getting a leak, having to wait for the water to dry, re apply silicone, wait for it to dry, test again... I decided just to give up on it. The seal is exceptionally water resistant, so I'll just stick with misting and refilling waterbowls. The whole waterfall thing would have been nice, but I should have planned it better. Hindsight is 20/20, eh? My advice, based on my failure, for anyone who wants to try such an endeavor in the future would be to a)use glass instead of plexi or b)use a pre-existing water bowl and just cut a drain in the bottom. That way you'll only have 1 seal to worry about, not 9+.

Also, for future plans (and maybe a renovation next summer when my torts can be outdoors while I work on things), I am considering replacing my bottom level with a large, inset rubbermaid bin. Right now I can fit a couple inches of substrate in the enclosure. This is fine for my boys who have, for whatever reason, never been burrowers/diggers. However, I do plan to find some girls, and I slapped myself in the forehead when I realized that they will probably need to be able to dig in case there are ever eggs. But since I don't need to fit a filtration system in the bottom anymore, I have plenty of room for the bottom of a bin in the cabinet. I can just cut a giant hole in the floor, squeeze a tub in, caulk to seal it and add a couple supports to hold the excess weight.

Additionally, I may end up installing a heater of some variety in the cabinet below the bottom floor. Luckily I went with some serious overkill by using the wire I did, and my thermostat can still handle a couple hundred more watts, so my choices are wide open. Think I might go with a low watt CHE aimed straight up. Without it, running full throttle, my heaters can raise the temperature of the top floor by a full 20F above ambient, the 3rd floor by 15F, but then the 2nd floor only increases 5F and the bottom floor is ambient temp. This is fine for my torts since my ambient temp in the house never drops below what they'd encounter on a cooler day in the wild (70F). I don't think that'd be fine for many other high humidity torts that might benefit from living in a viv, though. So, for anyone else thinking about trying something similar, remember to include in your designs the ability to add extra heat sources, like perhaps substrate heaters. Come to think of it, maybe I could use the drain pipes from my failed waterfall attempt to run wiring for a substrate heater or two...

I think that's it for now. Will try to get pics of the boys in their new home up tonight.