My shelled family got bigger much bigger

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ZenHerper

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Three-toed huh. That makes a lot of sense. The hybrid idea makes sense to. Red who just got his name within the hour reminds me of a cherry head red-footed. Of course this is just a comparison I don't think there's any tortoise in these turtles. The other one with red didn't get nearly as much. It's a starting place ill look up both with a focus on the three toe as that seems to dominate. Assuming three toed are typically lighter in color.
Three-toeds can be quite colorful on the skin...the carapace is more "plain". The ones with the feathered pattern on the carapace may have some intergrade DNA. If they were from crossed parents, or were collected from somewhere where 3Ts and EBTs overlap their ranges.

 

Marshall77

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Three-toeds can be quite colorful on the skin...the carapace is more "plain". The ones with the feathered pattern on the carapace may have some intergrade DNA. If they were from crossed parents, or were collected from somewhere where 3Ts and EBTs overlap their ranges.

Just some thoughts that I've put together today having more time to observe then put everything together and change things out all that nonsense.
Initially I thought maybe this was an Impulse buy all at once walk into a pet store walk out with five turtles maybe baby turtles and everything they need. Thinking about it this would be a hefty purchase especially for an impulse purchase. Even if the lady did this 20 years ago. Which is all the information I got. The guy's wife kept turtles for 20 years and then came down with cancer and passed away.😞
So I started looking for clues with the equipment. The tank was purchased at some point from Goodwill because their sticker still on it. Fast and appears to be an aquarium stand for a 15 maybe 20 gallon aquarium and then there's a piece of plywood cut to the dimensions of the much bigger aquarium so you can balance it on the stand for just too small. Goodwill might have had both the stand in the aquarium but I don't think they would sell it as a complete unit like that. Which makes me wonder if this tank was an upgrade when they got their second or third turtle. In the fish world I'm very familiar with this we call it MTS. Multi Tank Syndrome. In this world I suppose it would be multi Turtle Syndrome. Hold On Tight tank syndrome. I have 2 55 stat would work. Three in one two in the another. Combined with an outside run on nice days and that might be pretty close to a livable solution.
 

ZenHerper

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Each adult needs a lot of space - in captivity, the minimum habitat should be comparable to an adult Russian. They need a lot of walking room. And they are as territorial as any other Chelonian species. A single male with 2 or more females if they are confined to anything less than, say, 10X10 feet.

The two 55 gallon aquariums will still be on the inhumane end of the scale. Look into getting some giant stock tanks (from Tractor Supply or equivalent farm supply store). You need sufficient room for each animal to exercise properly, for a healthful temperature gradient, and a good-sized water feature. As temporary digs, they are better than the single tank they are in now, but conditions should be improved to Optimal.

This is the bare minimum if this is a group of all females (the group divided into 2-3 of these tanks is better):

If this is a mixed sex group (post good photos of the eyes, and their plastrons on a bit of an angle if you need help with working out their genders), the females are no doubt fertile and potentially gravid. This is egg-laying season, so they need lots of substrate and space to dig and lay without interfering with each other.

Thanks for rescuing! Lots of adult animals need help and get passed by. But the big difference between getting a handful of hatchlings is that rescued adult animals nearly always need up-scaled habitats right from the start.

Work at improvements steadily. Let us know how to help!
 

Marshall77

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It looks like even the maximum plans I have will not satisfy you. So instead of going through the argument of trying to get two 55s into the house and trying to explain why that is needed when they've lived twenty years in this tank or something smaller. I'll settle for the much easier goal of just the one and wait until I have my own place. I'm not going to stress out about getting 5 6 inch Turtles 55 square feet of enclosure which will no doubt render me homeless for a bunch of strangers. I am sure the 10 x 15 or whatever that space is will be enough for them to feel they're in heaven after living in these conditions for so many years. but the current head of household will not go for it and I am not going to get into a losing fight. So they will have to wait. If this gets me kicked I guess all I can say is bye.
 
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The irony of life is that your V turtles living in what equates to an animal hostel may very well live longer than V turtles who free range on an acre of land with a pond. One can only hope that logic will prevail and doing what is needed (the highest and best) out ranks base level thinking (what we want).
 

Marshall77

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It's all good I was just feeling ganged up on. After all I've only had these turtles one full day now and I didn't even know I was getting them until I got them. I am the type that will stand up for myself sometimes it all cost. I do think a bigger tank is important but if I can't address that right now I can at least do my best to address everything else. Like getting them stupid heat rocks out of there before 1 malfunctions. Or getting a proper UVB bulb now that I have watched videos I think these Turtles are much too pale and that's just a heat lamp and not UVB. I probably will still try to get permission for a second turtle aquarium as I seem to have at least one dominant male. It's possible that a second male made a move while I was watching but it's not as persistent as Red he has picked himself out a favorite and is not giving her much rest.
 

jeff kushner

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Naw, not ganged up on at all ...although from your perspective, I can see how it would feel that way. Please don't get jaded, there's some super talent here and I wouldn't say that if it weren't true. I rarely sugarcoat things and you simply won't find another source with the pro-level talent, period. I've read the entire internet so I can save you time...lol

You're doing fine......I've told people my whole life that size matters....and I finally come to a place where they agree yet I do not always agree with them!. That's okay too.....

I kept water turtles in 55 gallon tanks for 40 years....tanks did great for them but the ring of fencing around the Boysenberry tree, w/ a small pond in the middle always worked as a kid, until a racoon or fox came around. I wasn't ready to have my box turtle predated so I just put my little Matilda in an outdoor(see other thread) home I built from my leftover deck boards from last summer. After a year of watching her grow, I miss her being there in the mornings, but I feel that she is better off outside.

Good luck my friend....relax, you are among friends here....

jeff

BTW- you can do everything super cheap.....if you browse around here, you'll see some awfully cheap solutions to things. Not everyone here has disposable income yet they provide fantastic homes!
 

Toddrickfl1

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Nobody is ganging up on you, you asked for advice on what's best for the turtles and people are giving you answers on what's best for the turtles. Please don't keep them in that tank. Its inhumane and not at all fair to the animals. Maybe reconsider rehoming them to someone with the means to set them up adequately.
 

Dcatalano

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It's all good I was just feeling ganged up on. After all I've only had these turtles one full day now and I didn't even know I was getting them until I got them. I am the type that will stand up for myself sometimes it all cost. I do think a bigger tank is important but if I can't address that right now I can at least do my best to address everything else. Like getting them stupid heat rocks out of there before 1 malfunctions. Or getting a proper UVB bulb now that I have watched videos I think these Turtles are much too pale and that's just a heat lamp and not UVB. I probably will still try to get permission for a second turtle aquarium as I seem to have at least one dominant male. It's possible that a second male made a move while I was watching but it's not as persistent as Red he has picked himself out a favorite and is not giving her much rest.
I’m no expert but have learned a ton from this group. My first thought is that since you’re learning so much through this experience, you can pick two to keep in your expanded enclosures and find homes for the other 3, with the requirement that they build or purchase a proper enclosure before you pass them turtle on to them. You can share the care sheet and help teach the new prospective caregivers what they need to know. That takes some of the burden off of you - 5 turtle will require A LOT of space. I only have one Russian tortoise and he needs more space than I would’ve guessed. Best of luck. You got this.
 

Marshall77

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So now I'm cruel because I won't put 6-inch turtles in a space large enough to keep two big dogs. And unlike most animals people say the first one should have X amount of room and if you want to give them a companion half again. No one person says 10 x 10 for each turtle in this case that's 50 by 50. Seems to me we park our cars in an area that's not much bigger than that. And another person comes along and says they'll do good enough 300 gallon watering trough. Which is just inconsistent. But I am still more concerned with other things as I still believe they can be on a hundred acres and it won't matter if they're other needs are not met. Heat and nutrition have to be more important then space. I'm happy enough with her new water dish three at a time can be in it and sometimes our but more importantly it doesn't take an act of Congress to get in and out of it. Its plastic but the bottom of this one is textured.
 

TaylorTortoise

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This is so sad. Turtles/tortoises need a lot of space. Are you not aware of this?
If you cannot provide the best room and time for these turtles, please do them a favor and find someone that will care for them. You can see it in their face that they just want out of that tank. PLEASE do these changes immediately. They WILL NOT survive in these circumstances.
 

Marshall77

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Okay well I've got too much to do to get stuck on this size issue. If you all incest in staying on this treadmill that's not going anywhere talking about size and neglecting everything else well find you stay here and do that I'm going to go figure out the rest of what I need to know. You stay here and enjoy your iron roll I'm going to go figure out the best overall care that I can provide these creatures deserve nothing less than that. I can't believe you people are so arrogant to think that you are the only ones that know how to take care of turtles and tortoises properly you've got it all figured out but yet things like pyramiding still exist.
 

nicoleann2214

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Okay well I've got too much to do to get stuck on this size issue. If you all incest in staying on this treadmill that's not going anywhere talking about size and neglecting everything else well find you stay here and do that I'm going to go figure out the rest of what I need to know. You stay here and enjoy your iron roll I'm going to go figure out the best overall care that I can provide these creatures deserve nothing less than that. I can't believe you people are so arrogant to think that you are the only ones that know how to take care of turtles and tortoises properly you've got it all figured out but yet things like pyramiding still exist.
Pyramiding still exists mostly because the owner doesn’t know how to accurately provide their tortoise with the right enclosure and fit their specific need. Hence why they come here and ask questions to learn how to provide a better life for their pet.
 

Toddrickfl1

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Okay well I've got too much to do to get stuck on this size issue. If you all incest in staying on this treadmill that's not going anywhere talking about size and neglecting everything else well find you stay here and do that I'm going to go figure out the rest of what I need to know. You stay here and enjoy your iron roll I'm going to go figure out the best overall care that I can provide these creatures deserve nothing less than that. I can't believe you people are so arrogant to think that you are the only ones that know how to take care of turtles and tortoises properly you've got it all figured out but yet things like pyramiding still exist.
Lol, You came here asking for advice then when advice is given you disregard it and argue with people. And we're the ones that are arrogant? What was the point of this post if your not going to listen to anyone and already know best?

"I'm going to go figure out the best overall care that I can provide these creatures deserve nothing less than that."

But..... Your not doing that?
 

nicoleann2214

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Lol, You came here asking for advice then when advice is given you disregard it and argue with people. And we're the ones that are arrogant? What was the point of this post if your not going to listen to anyone and already know best?

"I'm going to go figure out the best overall care that I can provide these creatures deserve nothing less than that."

But..... Your not doing that?
I agree, it can be upsetting to hear what you’re doing isn’t what’s best, but it is a great feeling when you fix the situation and give your animal a proper way to live! And can see them benefiting.
 

Marshall77

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Lol, You came here asking for advice then when advice is given you disregard it and argue with people. And we're the ones that are arrogant? What was the point of this post if your not going to listen to anyone and already know best?

"I'm going to go figure out the best overall care that I can provide these creatures deserve nothing less than that."

But..... Your not doing that?
Well think about it this way put your animals on an acre two acres hundred acres of land whatever you want. But you have to take away food water and Heat. See how long your your animals last it may take him 6 months to starve to death Bur they will die a cruel death and quickly. I'm not saying I'm not going to give them more space I'm saying I'm not going to give them my 50 by 50 foot square that is ridiculous and nobody else but this forum seems to think that they need such a massive guard and certainly not immediately as if there going to die in a week if they don't get a 50 x 50 foot space. I will say it one more time other things are as important if not MORE IMPORTANT then enough space. Your skulls are thicker than your pet shells. My god get past the conditions thay came in I will do things to compensate as I improve their lives but I can't do them sitting on a forum arguing with you. I do not have to and will not limit my education to this one forum. And when the rest of the internet does not say I need a 50 by 50 foot square to keep 5 Turtles I will not give it to them just because one forum thinks they do.
 

MenagerieGrl

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Naw, not ganged up on at all ...although from your perspective, I can see how it would feel that way. Please don't get jaded, there's some super talent here and I wouldn't say that if it weren't true. I rarely sugarcoat things and you simply won't find another source with the pro-level talent, period. I've read the entire internet so I can save you time...lol

You're doing fine......I've told people my whole life that size matters....and I finally come to a place where they agree yet I do not always agree with them!. That's okay too.....

I kept water turtles in 55 gallon tanks for 40 years....tanks did great for them but the ring of fencing around the Boysenberry tree, w/ a small pond in the middle always worked as a kid, until a racoon or fox came around. I wasn't ready to have my box turtle predated so I just put my little Matilda in an outdoor(see other thread) home I built from my leftover deck boards from last summer. After a year of watching her grow, I miss her being there in the mornings, but I feel that she is better off outside.

Good luck my friend....relax, you are among friends here....

jeff

BTW- you can do everything super cheap.....if you browse around here, you'll see some awfully cheap solutions to things. Not everyone here has disposable income yet they provide fantastic homes!
Thank You Jeff,
I could have not said it any better...Were all looking out for the best interests of our 4 legged, BUT life is complicated. All we can do is our best, with what we have available. And when that is not possible think of the best interest of the tort's.
 
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bella&george

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Okay well I've got too much to do to get stuck on this size issue. If you all incest in staying on this treadmill that's not going anywhere talking about size and neglecting everything else well find you stay here and do that I'm going to go figure out the rest of what I need to know. You stay here and enjoy your iron roll I'm going to go figure out the best overall care that I can provide these creatures deserve nothing less than that. I can't believe you people are so arrogant to think that you are the only ones that know how to take care of turtles and tortoises properly you've got it all figured out but yet things like pyramiding still exist.
It seems like it got a little heated here... but i'd like to let you know that everyone on the forum (at least most of us) just want to help you give your turtle the best care possible, which is reason we are pushing this so much. A lot of us on the forum started off taking care of our torts/turtles in all the wrong ways. Now, we don't want others to make the same mistakes. We don't think we are the only ones that know how to take care of turtles and tortoises- actually most of us know the stuff we know because of others' expierience and help from a lot of different sources, ones on the forum and ones not. If you ask for advice, we'll give you the best we can offer. I hope you won't take that statement for granted. We didn't zoom in on the size problem entirely and neglect everything else, we just want to help you see its importance. We gave advice on the lighting, food, substrate, and more and explained those things importance to your turtles' well being, just like how we are trying to explain enclosure size's importance. Basically, please don't scorn us for trying to push this. If we didn't care about your turtle, we wouldn't help in the first place. Please focus on what you can do now, which would be the extra enclosure, separating the females and males, and I would like to put a lot of emphasis on substrate. Others on this thread have already explained why it should be focused on. Even if you have to keep them in the tanks for now, consider moving them into a bigger enclosure, outdoor if possible, when you have the time and space. You don't need to go overboard, we would just like to emphasize how important a proper amount of space is for excersize, limiting agression, and for your torts comfort. As a side note-
Well think about it this way put your animals on an acre two acres hundred acres of land whatever you want. But you have to take away food water and Heat.
It seems you think we care about food, water, and heat less than we do space. I would like to tell you that you are wrong. Food, water, heat, substrate, and space are all equally important to a tort or turtle's comfort and health. That doesn't mean each and every one of those things will be able to be provided in the best ways possible, and sometimes they can be rather lacking. But, that doesn't mean the tort/turtle can't live a healthy, happy life in those conditions either. There are times when you should focus on certain things over others; in this case I would focus on getting some substrate, and working out that space situation, which you are already getting at. (As it seems you are figuring out the other stuff quite well). What i'm trying to get at here is: I urge you to try your hardest to provide your turtle with as many of those things as possible. If you have a chance to make something better, take it. If not, you can wait until you do.
 

Toddrickfl1

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Well think about it this way put your animals on an acre two acres hundred acres of land whatever you want. But you have to take away food water and Heat. See how long your your animals last it may take him 6 months to starve to death Bur they will die a cruel death and quickly. I'm not saying I'm not going to give them more space I'm saying I'm not going to give them my 50 by 50 foot square that is ridiculous and nobody else but this forum seems to think that they need such a massive guard and certainly not immediately as if there going to die in a week if they don't get a 50 x 50 foot space. I will say it one more time other things are as important if not MORE IMPORTANT then enough space. Your skulls are thicker than your pet shells. My god get past the conditions thay came in I will do things to compensate as I improve their lives but I can't do them sitting on a forum arguing with you. I do not have to and will not limit my education to this one forum. And when the rest of the internet does not say I need a 50 by 50 foot square to keep 5 Turtles I will not give it to them just because one forum thinks they do.
I'm confused, I've read this entire thread and I don't see anybody saying you need a 50x50 enclosure? I also don't see anybody saying your Torts would die in a week without that?
 
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