Mycoplasma

[cooky_luvs]

Hello all,

I have an adult cherryhead tortoise with mycoplasma. He’s kept entirely separate from the rest of my herd and babied quite a lot. He’s doing well right now, he’s had a few bad points before where he had to go on antibiotics. He is consistently symptomatic though, always. When he is what I consider ‘well’ he has an outrageously large appetite and also outrageously large poops lol. This boy can eat!

The problem is he is consistently always symptomatic always sneezing always making a weird noise like he’s trying to clear his throat / nose. It never goes away, some days are better than others though.

My reason for posting is that of course I know it’s unlikely that he will ever be mycoplasma free, but are there ways that I can help him reduce the symptoms? He always sounds like he’s quite uncomfortable. Are there any treatments that I can do at home, anything that has been found to be effective for relief?

The vet is helpful for when his symptoms have made him truly sick and he wouldn’t eat, etc.. He had two separate rounds of Draxxin over the summer which got him stable. But the vet hasn’t been very helpful for how I can manage his seemingly lifelong symptoms he will have. Figured I would see if anyone else has experience with this and any tips.

Danielle

 

[cooky_luvs]

I maybe should’ve put this in the health section, but not sure how to move it

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

If I remember correctly @Maggie3fan has written on the forum how he cleaned a nose of a tortoise with mycoplasma using one of those snot aspirators.

I maybe should’ve put this in the health section, but not sure how to move it

A moderator like @wellington should be able to move this thread.

 

[cooky_luvs]

If I remember correctly @Maggie3fan has written on the forum how he cleaned a nose of a tortoise with mycoplasma using one of those snot aspirators.



A moderator like @wellington should be able to move this thread.

Yes, I do flush his nares, but provides little to no relief or improvement. I have wondered if this guy has some sort of permanent damage in his airways. Wish it would let me post a video here.

Thanks for moving the thread.

 

[cooky_luvs]

http://carapacecritters.com/IMG_4461.mov

OK figured out a way to share a video. This is how he sounds 24/7, just a normal day for him.

 

[Dustin]

Seems risky to keep this tortoise around since you are selling hatchlings to people. It's great that you keep this guy separate but are you screening all of your hatchlings for mycoplasma before selling them or just assuming that your biosecurity protocols are sufficient to prevent spread?

 

[Maggie3fan]

Hello all,

I have an adult cherryhead tortoise with mycoplasma. He’s kept entirely separate from the rest of my herd and babied quite a lot. He’s doing well right now, he’s had a few bad points before where he had to go on antibiotics. He is consistently symptomatic though, always. When he is what I consider ‘well’ he has an outrageously large appetite and also outrageously large poops lol. This boy can eat!

The problem is he is consistently always symptomatic always sneezing always making a weird noise like he’s trying to clear his throat / nose. It never goes away, some days are better than others though.

My reason for posting is that of course I know it’s unlikely that he will ever be mycoplasma free, but are there ways that I can help him reduce the symptoms? He always sounds like he’s quite uncomfortable. Are there any treatments that I can do at home, anything that has been found to be effective for relief?

The vet is helpful for when his symptoms have made him truly sick and he wouldn’t eat, etc.. He had two separate rounds of Draxxin over the summer which got him stable. But the vet hasn’t been very helpful for how I can manage his seemingly lifelong symptoms he will have. Figured I would see if anyone else has experience with this and any tips.

Danielle

My tort constantly blew snot bubbles, but he didn't wheeze or cough...I kept my tort (AB) warmer than normal..85 to 90 all the time...your RF needs 90% humidity as well. I had that tort for about 20 years and the only way I knew he was sick was the initial diagnosis and then for a year or so, but with regular snot sucking and Terramycin he just stayed kinda steady after that. If your guy is eating and pooping you are ahead of the game. Just enjoy the fact he's eating and there ya go!
Vitamins and a really good diet and daily soaking is what you need...

and tortoises don't come in herds like horses and cows...Tortoises come in a creep...serious...I love it too... a freakin creep of Sulcata ha!

 

[mark1]

i would give baytril a try along with the baytril nasal flushes ...... your vet may know better, but draxin has been shown somewhat effective against mycoplasma bovis and mycoplasma hypneumonia , the difference in MIC for these two spp mycoplasma's is very different, the same dosages will not work on both...... tortoises get m. aggazzii and m. testudo (my spelling may be very incorrect on all these).... has a MIC been shown for the mycoplasma tortoises get? draxin has been shown to be safe, but has it been shown to be effective? one type of mycoplasma tortoises get is much worse than the other .... it's been my understanding immune health is the only way to keep a tortoise with mycoplasma healthy .....

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Seems risky to keep this tortoise around since you are selling hatchlings to people. It's great that you keep this guy separate but are you screening all of your hatchlings for mycoplasma before selling them or just assuming that your biosecurity protocols are sufficient to prevent spread?

Good question. In papers, primary transmission mechanism was through "close contact" - fighting, mating etc. Not through environment.

I need to recheck but vertical transmission (from female to eggs and hatchlings) wasn't discovered. Yet I'm not on the cutting edge with research papers.

 

[cooky_luvs]

Seems risky to keep this tortoise around since you are selling hatchlings to people. It's great that you keep this guy separate but are you screening all of your hatchlings for mycoplasma before selling them or just assuming that your biosecurity protocols are sufficient to prevent spread?

I do appreciate your concern, but I have every confidence in my protocols. Additionally mycoplasma agassizii is transmitted through close contact, and does not survive long without a host. Here’s just one of a multitude of sources that can confirm.

https://www.zooaquarium.org.au/common/Uploaded%20files/Website/DRA%20Mycoplasma%20agassizii%20FINAL%20May%202020.pdf

 

[cooky_luvs]

My tort constantly blew snot bubbles, but he didn't wheeze or cough...I kept my tort (AB) warmer than normal..85 to 90 all the time...your RF needs 90% humidity as well. I had that tort for about 20 years and the only way I knew he was sick was the initial diagnosis and then for a year or so, but with regular snot sucking and Terramycin he just stayed kinda steady after that. If your guy is eating and pooping you are ahead of the game. Just enjoy the fact he's eating and there ya go!
Vitamins and a really good diet and daily soaking is what you need...

and tortoises don't come in herds like horses and cows...Tortoises come in a creep...serious...I love it too... a freakin creep of Sulcata ha!

Lol yes I know they’re called a creep, but I’ve never loved that term for them

Yeah, sadly, I’ve read about terramycin being effective but now not easy to get. He actually really doesn’t have snot bubbles or anything typically, just this constant lil noise he makes and occasional sneezing. I actually noticed that little noise the moment I got him and that that’s what inspired me to take him in to get tested right away. The noise was just too constant to be normal. Then quickly after that, he actually got very sick for a while, likely from the stress of a new environment. So luckily he would’ve been quarantined anyway, but I’m glad he showed symptoms leading to further testing and a more permanent quarantine. I am happy he eats and eats well, just hope to make him more comfortable in the long run as well.

 

[cooky_luvs]

Good question. In papers, primary transmission mechanism was through "close contact" - fighting, mating etc. Not through environment.

I need to recheck but vertical transmission (from female to eggs and hatchlings) wasn't discovered. Yet I'm not on the cutting edge with research papers.

i would give baytril a try along with the baytril nasal flushes ...... your vet may know better, but draxin has been shown somewhat effective against mycoplasma bovis and mycoplasma hypneumonia , the difference in MIC for these two spp mycoplasma's is very different, the same dosages will not work on both...... tortoises get m. aggazzii and m. testudo (my spelling may be very incorrect on all these).... has a MIC been shown for the mycoplasma tortoises get? draxin has been shown to be safe, but has it been shown to be effective? one type of mycoplasma tortoises get is much worse than the other .... it's been my understanding immune health is the only way to keep a tortoise with mycoplasma healthy .....

Thank you I will see about baytril, I have read about it being effective but haven’t tried it yet. I have been frustrated with the vet because they gave me draxxin twice and I wanted something different, not just the same old thing again after it didn’t seem to work so well the first time. I did see improvement and he went back to eating, but the vet doesn’t seem to be very invested in digging deeper for more long term solutions.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you I will see about baytril, I have read about it being effective but haven’t tried it yet. I have been frustrated with the vet because they gave me draxxin twice and I wanted something different, not just the same old thing again after it didn’t seem to work so well the first time. I did see improvement and he went back to eating, but the vet doesn’t seem to be very invested in digging deeper for more long term solutions.

Even if you choose "the Baytril route", no warranties that noisy breathing will go away. Permanent lesions are common with mycoplasma, even when infection was treated and contained. The worst case is, probably, the loss of olfactory sense but affected tortoises were still eating, though their appetit wasn't great.

 

[cooky_luvs]

Even if you choose "the Baytril route", no warranties that noisy breathing will go away. Permanent lesions are common with mycoplasma, even when infection was treated and contained. The worst case is, probably, the loss of olfactory sense but affected tortoises were still eating, though their appetit wasn't great.

That’s why I do wonder if he has permanent damage, because he has seemed otherwise fine for months now. I would hope there would be something that could ease any symptoms, even if it doesn’t fix it entirely. Like anything that is safe to nebulize that maybe can soothe his airways?

I would, of course love to find a way to rid of the mycoplasma entirely, but it’s likely not feasible. Even in the boyer paper the nasal flushes mentioned get rid of symptoms, but no mention of tests coming back negative thereafter.

 

[mark1]

Thank you I will see about baytril, I have read about it being effective but haven’t tried it yet. I have been frustrated with the vet because they gave me draxxin twice and I wanted something different, not just the same old thing again after it didn’t seem to work so well the first time. I did see improvement and he went back to eating, but the vet doesn’t seem to be very invested in digging deeper for more long term solutions

i believe clarithromycin has been shown effective..... as said nasal erosion has been shown in chronic cases.....

 

[cooky_luvs]

I was recently reminded about this post and I’ve been meaning to update. Much to my surprise my tortoise has now had three consecutive negative mycoplasma tests. I tested him in April, May and June.

The baytril nasal flushes seem to have been the game changer. After a few months I noticed my guy wasn’t so loud and noisy anymore, no more constantly trying to clear himself out. I figured the flushes worked but had no expectation that the mycoplasma would actually be taken care of.


I was always skeptical of the Boyer paper because it didn’t describe actual negative PCR results after the flushes, only a reduction in symptoms, no time frames, etc. Back in March, William Espenshade had posted on Facebook a new study that actually showed negative PCR results for tortoises treated with these nasal flushes a month after treatment. I’ll try to share the link but I’ve had problems sharing it so I’ll also put a screenshot. That was very encouraging so I decided to test again and was very pleasantly surprised to receive a negative PCR test.

https://bioone.org/journals/journal-of-herpetological-medicine-and-surgery/volume-35/issue-1/JHMS-D-24-00029/Effectiveness-of-Nasal-Flush-Treatments-in-Mycoplasma-PCR--or/10.5818/JHMS-D-24-00029.short

I tested again in May and June both also negative. Now I’m not sure if this means mycoplasma is totally gone from my guy. I will definitely have to test him again several more months in the future and beyond I’ll have to figure out what sort of testing schedule to do. If they stay consistently negative into the future though I will eventually get to the point where I’m no longer worried.

I definitely want to put a disclaimer here that if someone tries this, it’s always good to have the advisement of a veterinarian. I’m hesitant of this being taken as sound medical advice, I’m not a vet, but I did want to share in case this can help others and their tortoises.

I hope my guy will stay mycoplasma free from here on out, I am cautiously optimistic. So far he’s been doing great these past 5-6 months, it’s like he’s a whole new tortoise

 

[Markw84]

@cooky_luvs Thank you so much for not getting defensive with the possibly interpreted "negative" constructive replies to your original post. By sticking around, answering, and now posting a followup, you are showing you understand the intent of this forum and are contributing to all our knowledge. Thank you!

 

[Yvonne G]

You may have said previously, but if so, I couldn't find it. I had learned to mix one part Baytril with nine parts sterile saline for a nasal.flush. Is that the same as what you used?

 

[cooky_luvs]

@cooky_luvs Thank you so much for not getting defensive with the possibly interpreted "negative" constructive replies to your original post. By sticking around, answering, and now posting a followup, you are showing you understand the intent of this forum and are contributing to all our knowledge. Thank you!

No problem, I have learned over the years to have tough skin in the tortoise world and not take the bait. I’ve been on this forum for over 10 years, but have never been overly active and it is for a reason. Even from the ‘shadows’ this forum has been incredibly helpful to me over the years, so much good info here. It can be incredibly frustrating though that one can seemingly never ask for help or be vulnerable. I will admit I’ve always been very disinclined to share and such a response like was on this post before won’t encourage me to do so more in the future.