New and would love some help/advice!

[katie4433]

Hi, I may be getting a Herman tortoise for my birthday coming up and I just generally needed some help and advice hoping you guys could help[emoji4]

First of all, tort table or vivarium?
I’ve seen that people with a table they end up getting mold due to their water.
But doesn’t a vivarium get humid?
It’s just so confusing!!


And I just need to know important facts I need to know for when I do get one I don’t miss out a step then it gets poorly because I really wouldn’t want that to happen
Thank you x

 

[Minority2]

A PVC or uPVC vivarium will be more durable than wood. PVC or uPVC enclosures will not mold but it will also be more expensive than wood. Sealing wood enclosures and or adding a liner is also recommended.

I personally do not recommend buying commercially pet-branded tortoise houses from local pet stores. They're grossly overpriced and are not well designed to offer maximum exercising/roaming space.

Be sure to have your enclosure completely ready before buying or bringing the tortoise home.

These two threads will answer most of your questions. Please ignore the sand section in the care sheet. Sand is not a safe substrate choice:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[tortoisekev]

I’d suggest looking at the articles above, as well as The Tortoise Protection Group (.org.uk), Tortoise Trust (.org) and The Tortoise Table (.org.uk) as three authorities on tortoises. Just makes sure what you read is about the breed of tortoise you are getting (i.e. Hermann) and not anything else as conditions will vary.

I personally have opted for an open table (lined with plastic to prevent moulding). I am very dubious about Vivs after reading the TortoiseTrust and TPG.

 

[Minority2]

I’d suggest looking at the articles above, as well as The Tortoise Protection Group (.org.uk), Tortoise Trust (.org) and The Tortoise Table (.org.uk) as three authorities on tortoises. Just makes sure what you read is about the breed of tortoise you are getting (i.e. Hermann) and not anything else as conditions will vary.

I personally have opted for an open table (lined with plastic to prevent moulding). I am very dubious about Vivs after reading the TortoiseTrust and TPG.

What did you hear about vivariums?

I think all of the websites you've described are useful in some way but I also believe that some of the information found and advised in those sites are also quite outdated if I am to be honest. While tortoise forum may also have similar issues, it is however, filled with many active members and breeders that are always testing out new concepts. Some are also conducting ongoing experiments in an attempt to improve and evolve tortoise care. I believe their insight, experience, and feedback will be most valuable for new members seeking advance tortoise care and knowledge far beyond what the bare minimum falls under.

 

[tortoisekev]

I have great respect for everyone on the forum. They have far more advanced knowledge than myself and I hope to absorb some of it.

However, I have read in a number of places/forums (including the links in my other post) that Vivs are not ideal. Increased moisture and mould, lack of roaming space making other things. Plus I’m working off advise from my local breeder (not pet shop), who’s had tortoises (about 40 of them at the moment) for 52 years.

Also, my own personal and unfounded view is that we’re trying to replicate a natural habitat in the best way we can... having been to the Med I’ve never seen a tortoise walking round in a glass box! (Ok, I’m joking, but you get the point!) They’re used to high/low temps of the day and night, they can roam for miles in the dry dirt, they like to hide... so I hope that my open table enclosure caters for that as much as possible (fairly large, 30*C > 15-20*C at either end, plants and a ‘house’ area to get cover and hide in, deep enough substrate that is kept fairly moist and can allow for digging.)

 

[Minority2]

Wooden vivariums are not as durable as uPVC or PVC vivariums as I have answered earlier. However, one can take measures to increase the durability of a wooden enclosure. Sealing and treating a wooden enclosure as one would do for an aquarium setup (coats of epoxy, fiberglass lining, and silicone sealant) would make the enclosure much more durable in the long run. Adding a durable, replacable pond liner will also extend the life of the enclosure.

What do you mean lack of roaming space?

An indoor open and closed enclosures will usually have similar amounts of space. Some, commercially built enclosures however, such as those pre-built tortoise houses, are very poorly designed. But those tortoise houses are still technically open enclosures with overhead mesh grating.

Glass vivariums are also rarely recommended. A recommended adult tortoise sized glass enclosure would cost way too much, far more than other more effective options. I've actually never seen an 8' x 4' ft glass enclosure before. Some owners do keep their tortoises in large greenhouses but that's also a different situation altogether.

Some of the more famous tortoise breeders and keepers in the world, operators of tortoise conservatories are misinterpreting what "natural conditions" really mean. No one can truly replicate a natural environment by keeping tortoises caged in a particular area. Keeping them in dry environments without reachable food/planted food and or water is completely different from what they would see in nature.

I myself don't particular believe that replicating nature is best. Modern tortoise care relies heavily on tools, devices, and specialized foods to improve upon traditional methods. While some items can never be replaced, such as natural sunlight, many others can successfully improve the well being of tortoises, in some ways, much better than they would have in the wild. Hell, captive-bred survival rates are several times much higher than the typical survival rates of wild tortoises. Trying to "emulate" nature while ignoring other ideas and advancements is not the answer.

 

[tinytortoise]

There's lovely advice above, listen to them. The care-sheet by Chris & Beginners Mistakes are a must!

I'm also new, my baby just arrived today, but have carried out a thread similar to this, "Planning for a Hermann's", maybe helpful. (@Minority2 thanks for all the advice!)

Best of luck and happy early birthday, keep us posted on you future enclosure!