Newbie with silly questions

[Fireflyfarm]

Hi all, let me start by apologizing for these silly questions. My wife and I have two Red Foots that are doing well, happy and healthy. Before we acquired the Red Foots we really wanted Asian Black/Brown. We live in Louisiana so humidity is a constant and we have a 2000 square foot greenhouse which will allow us to overwinter easily. Now the stupid question is...What's the difference between the two? I understand the color and certain shell differences, but as far as personality, ease of care, health, etc. There's very little literature to be found on these amazing animals, but I think this group is probably the most knowledgable on these torts. We're considering adding to our tort collection and really need some practical advice. Any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Millerlite]

From what I experienced my brown mt. Tortoise had greater personality then my blacks. He however was a little bigger then where my blacks are now... They both have great personalities per all. The blacks can be a little more shy, where the browns will be coming toward you before you even notice where he's at. Can't go wrong with either of them. Blacks are a little more cold hardy then browns but with an green house I don't see any problem with that with either species. Browns also stay a bit smaller so that can be something to think about.


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[Fireflyfarm]

Thanks! That's very helpful. How about digging. I gather they love mud and I suspect they dig holes in the mud, but do they burrow? Try to dig out of an enclosure? And what about smell? Do Asians have an odor? Kinda crazy question, but in a greenhouse odors tend to linger.

 

[mikeh]

Re: RE: Newbie with silly questions

Hi all, let me start by apologizing for these silly questions. My wife and I have two Red Foots that are doing well, happy and healthy. Before we acquired the Red Foots we really wanted Asian Black/Brown. We live in Louisiana so humidity is a constant and we have a 2000 square foot greenhouse which will allow us to overwinter easily. Now the stupid question is...What's the difference between the two? I understand the color and certain shell differences, but as far as personality, ease of care, health, etc. There's very little literature to be found on these amazing animals, but I think this group is probably the most knowledgable on these torts. We're considering adding to our tort collection and really need some practical advice. Any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hi, I have only had my two emys emys yearlings for few months, so I can only share my observations of juveniles.

They like it very humid, wet and seem to like it warmer then what research says. I constantly see them basking in warm places with their feet out reminding me of aquatic turtles basking on the rock. I don't think they like strong direct sun, rather warm ambient temps. Very similar in care to red foots for environment and diet. Like Kyle says black are more cold hardy but browns can still take lower night temps. I believe Vic said, the Browns have no concept of cold.

They don't dig like sulcatas, but they will burrow in the substrate for the night about shell deep if given chance and no hide is provided. They like water, spend good amount of time in the water dish, I even seen one sleep in it overnight on occasion.

They are very curious about their surroundings, which they methodically observe in their slow animated manner. They are more active when hungry looking foe food. The two I have are not shy, more intelligent animals then other tortoises.

As to smell. They don't smell, but their urine has very strong ammonia like odor, not that it should be an issue in large space. A greenhouse sounds like a perfect environment for them.




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[Fireflyfarm]

Thanks! We are blessed(?)/cursed with high humidity nearly year round in south Louisiana. It seems that either would be perfect for us.
I've heard many times not to mix species, but could our Red Foots and the Asians be housed together for this first winter? They would all be similar sizes and feeding would be monitored to be sure all get a belly full. Are Asians particularly aggressive or could we squeak by these next few months? Any opinions?

 

[Baoh]

Personalities vary. Cold hardiness between blacks and browns is not so significant that I can even notice it. Mine have run around from the 30s and 40s up into temperatures beyond 100s (with briefer periods of exposure at such extremes). Some individuals may go into an aestivation state or something similar in extremes. Mine do not burrow, but they will readily use burrows that other animals create.

They are extremely observant. Some appear to be quasi-social like some RFs and some YFs. They become more interactive and personable as they grow. This last point applies to most -if not all- types of tortoises, of course.

Their dietary and keeping parameters overlap extremely well with RFs and YFs, too.

What are the sizes, sexes, and behaviors of your RFs? If you have a clean bill of health for both, you could potentially house them together, but you should do a thorough enough workup before deciding to do so if you decide to do so at all. My RFs, Manouria, and YFs have all gotten along extremely well. My largest female YF and my largest female phayrei travel the yard together very frequently and spend a lot of time in the company of one another. They are bother curious, observant, and human-attracted.

Here are some attached shots taken today of one walking tall, a dog with a "dog with a shell" as they are sometimes called, being human observant while a hybrid eats obliviously, and her following her YF "buddy".

 

[emysbreeder]

Thanks! We are blessed(?)/cursed with high humidity nearly year round in south Louisiana. It seems that either would be perfect for us.
I've heard many times not to mix species, but could our Red Foots and the Asians be housed together for this first winter? They would all be similar sizes and feeding would be monitored to be sure all get a belly full. Are Asians particularly aggressive or could we squeak by these next few months? Any opinions?

.......Hi, Your area of the USA is very good for eather sub-sp. The Browns are from areas closest to the Equator although some are from thialand. I find them to not understand cold and will just walk around in it until they ,being reptiles kinda run out of batteries at a little below 40F. They can learn to find a heated hut by putting them in it at night. After awile you wount have to put them in as they figgure it out and will come out and find Sun spots to bask in even though they dont have to do this in Nature. It helps to put your hut ware Sun shines on the ground next to the hut in the early morning. The Blacks will (if given enough room) find the pools of Sun spots the day before and will park themselfs there in advance. Thermostrategies.*EMYS Aug.2001 Austria pub. v.morgan/s.schaffer. As they warm up quickly with their black shell, healthy adults can overnight a 38F and be warm and eating in a few hours. I have kept one year olds outside with mulch and plants to hide burrow under down to 40F as long as it warms up during the day. Young and old Browns need to be at least 55F at night to be happy. One important factor for phayrei, if they get the signal cool weather is coming and you keep them warm they will lose weight quickly as their matabalism is running high but they might choose to stay warm but not eat. Of cource I would recomend you get some but thats just me. BEWARE they could become habbit forming if not a hard addiction. Email me for My Caresheet. [email protected] or visit my Defying Destiny Mt.Tortoise reserve in St.Aug.Fl. Vic Morgan

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Stephanie and Severn:

Baoh is of the school that mixing species as long as both have a clean bill of health is ok. I am just opposite of that. I believe that species of tortoise that have absolutely no opportunity to ever come together in the wild should ever be put together in captivity.

I have read that over the eons, tortoises grow and evolve to live in harmony with the little pathogens that are in their bodies. The pathogens are different on every continent. So when you put two species together you introduce pathogens to the other species that he has not been in contact with and they might make him sick or even dead.

You must make an informed decision. Do your research. Most of the tortoises we find today are captive bred, so the pathogen/continent thing isn't quite as important as it once was when most tortoises were imported. But in my opinion, it isn't worth the gamble.

 

[Fireflyfarm]

Wow. I didn't think it was so complicated. Thanks to both of you for your opinion on mixing species. I'm not sure what to do, but I appreciate you both trying to help. How easily do the pathogens spread? Would they be found in run off water? Are they airborne? Should I wash my hands between handling species? I guess I'm wondering if I can keep them that separated. Especially in a greenhouse.

 

[emysbreeder]

Wow. I didn't think it was so complicated. Thanks to both of you for your opinion on mixing species. I'm not sure what to do, but I appreciate you both trying to help. How easily do the pathogens spread? Would they be found in run off water? Are they airborne? Should I wash my hands between handling species? I guess I'm wondering if I can keep them that separated. Especially in a greenhouse.

.....I'm from the old school ways ...if there rules I most likely will find a 'reason" to brake them. As any Astronough can tell you if you look at the world from far away..........they are already mixed together. Mr. Wisenhimmer!