PLEASE HELP!!! Introducing 3yr old russian with two adult russians

[hatshepsut72]

I am having complications introducting Budweiser (3 yr old male) to Ike (adult male aprx. 10 yrs old) and Senna (adult female). The three lived together 7 months ago, then I adopted the adults, and later adopted Budweiser. At first Ike was the aggressor, biting onto Bud's front legs and not letting go. I separated them and recreated the habitat to look different. Same thing happened. So I fed them to make sure it wasn't a food issue. The two males still fought but not as hard. It was getting late so I created a barrier so they could still get used to each other with out hurting one another. The next day, I took the males out into neutral ground and they were completely fine. I even introduced the female and still every one behaved. I thought it might be a territorial thing. I recreated the barrier for the evening. This afternoon when I got home, Budweiser was with the adults. The adults must have shifted things enough to make a large enough gap to let Bud through. Bud was by Senna and Ike was just watching. Thinking they might be fine now, I started to remove the barrier. Ike then decided to go after Budweiser. I took Budweiser and fed all of them. Deciding they likely needed more neutral time, I took the boys out again and once again they were fine. Actually, Ike seemed to try to avoid Budweiser, backing up when he came too near. I introduced Senna and things continued as if there was nothing wrong. I put the males in the habitat, and they were a bit huffy with eachother. It looked as though this time, Budweiser was the more aggressive one, but both of them did calm quickly down. I decided to add Senna into the mix. Budweiser, even though he's not a mature male, appeared as though he was trying to claim Senna for his own and Ike didn't like this. Senna didn't appear to like it either. Both males started to become agressive. They are currently separated. I need to know what to do next. I'm running out of options. PLEASE HELP!!

 

[Yvonne G]

its much easier to have multiple Russians together when they live in a large outdoor habitat. Its almost impossible indoors, especially when you have one that really really doesn't want another one in with him.

Yvonne

 

[hatshepsut72]

I live in wisconsin, outdoor habitats are pretty much out of the question. Thanks though.

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I just spoke with a friend who runs a reptile rescue and has a very large habitat i can borrow and see if that makes a difference.

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i am still welcome to more ideas though.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

As a long distance truck driver i delivered a lot in Wisconsin. As an experienced chelonia keeper I know how to recognize the sun. You can have an outdoor habitat in the late spring and summer. You create separate inside habitats for the three to bring in at night or make a heated dogloo for them outside at night. they would of course hibernate in the winter. Russians are very aggressive tortoises. If you can't create a big enough habitat to keep them SAFELY, you shouldn't force any one to be with another animal that will hurt them...
As a responsible keeper you need to keep each one safe from harm...bottom line

 

[hatshepsut72]

I appreciate your suggestion. Another problem is: I rent and there is a no pet policy. I did get special permission to house an indoor pet. I can't do an outdoor habitat for those reasons. I am planning on trying to build a much larger indoor habitat and see what happens. I agree about their safety, I don't want any of them harmed. If worse comes to worse, I will just have to create another habitat solely for the smaller tortoise. Thank you again for your advice! When I own property, I definately want to create an outdoor habitat for the summer months.

 

[hatshepsut72]

Okay everyone, after trying a larger habitat and still failing, I made my final decision. Ike and Senna in a larger habitat, and Budweiser in smaller one by himself. Poor little guy. He'll have to wait until kitchen or outside time to socialize with the adults.

 

[Meg90]

Glass is not the best idea....you would be better off with wooden tort tables, or by using plastic rubbermaid tubs. They are much healthier for your animal. And allow the tort to thermoregulate. Also, that large enclosure has almost no ventilation. I think that keeping two russians in there is a very bad idea IMO.

IMO, glass tanks cause stress. Plus, tubs are cheaper, lighter, and better for the animals.

I live in an apt as well. I have no permission for my animals (shh don't tell the landlord!) but she HAS met Nigel, and Anouk, my two Greeks. I don't want to push my luck though, so the other specimens in my collection stayed hidden away that day.

Do you have any friends with yards? Even a couple of romps here and there would really benefit your tortoises. It is finally starting to warm up, and I am just itching to get Nigel outside, and let him really be a tortoise.

 

[hatshepsut72]

I wanted to do tort tables and tried the rubbermaid tubs. i wasn't getting the temperature high enough in the container. lots of energy loss. the large enclosure does have ventilation in the back. you just can't see it from the picture.

The two russians that are in there have been together for over a year without problems. Only when budweiser showed up were there problems.

I am planning on taking them outside every chance I get.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

It is against a lot of peoples opinions that you cannot raise a healthy tort in an aquarium. While a tort table would be better you can keep tortoises in aquariums alright. Sorry Meg, I disagree with you this time. Take some paper and run it around the outside so the torts can't see out. Be careful with your temperatures aquariums will heat up faster and stay hot longer.
I have little exercise places for my small tortoises using cheap fencing I'll attach a picture to give you the idea, your animals are going to need more room to exercise. What are you using for substrate? Can you keep it a little moist? I know you are doing the best you can and I totally understand...
I add stuff and change it around all the time. I am just trying to show you the little fence I use so they can get out of their habitat during the long winter and get some exercise...the fence is 8 inches tall

 

[hatshepsut72]

I love your ideas. I would like to build something like that for next winter.

I am currently using aspen. I keep water in the habitat and I keep a humidifyer running next to their habitats. I'm trying to keep it humid enough but it's sometimes hard to keep up in the winter. I think summer will be easier since it does get humid here, and I'm thinking of switching to pure cypress that will hold moisture better. I only have a little bit left of aspen, so I will be going to Fleet Farm and see if they have 100% cypress. I know the pine/cypress mixture is not the right one. What do you use and suggest?

The temperatures in the habitat range from 87ish under the heat lamp and low to mid 70s in the nonheated side. I try to be very carefull in the summer when we don't have the AC on. I won't even use the heat lamps on those days. I don't want them to overheat.

Thank you for all your help!

 

[tortoisenerd]

I've heard some people have a hard time finding Cypress, but either get the expensive stuff at the pet stores, or find a home improvement or garden store than sells the pure stuff.

I personally really like the aspen because we live in a rather damp environment, and I had a hard time keeping my tort warm with a moist substrate. I've just kept a very close eye on pyramiding (none so far). I've heard russians aren't that prone to pyramiding, so the dry substrate is ok for most.

You can go up to 95 directly under the heat lamp (at the tort's level, so if you are taking the temperature at the substrate level you probably can't go much higher). That's great you keep a close eye on the temperature. I found mine to really vary with the changes in house temperature, so I adjust the level of my bulb accordingly.

 

[hatshepsut72]

I'm wondering if Aspen would be good in the summer since it is usually humid and Cypress in the winter when it's dry. what do others think?

 

[tortoisenerd]

That could work if the switch isn't too much of a hassle for you (you may need a liner for your tort table with the moist substrate; not sure of your set up). Also see if the torts have a preference. Mine definitely liked the aspen over the eco earth & sand. Huge change in his behavior.

 

[hatshepsut72]

Hmmm, I'll keep that in mind! Thanks!