PM reply to Team Gomberg

[Kapidolo Farms]

You turned your mail off, so here is your question and my response. It did not seem "private" to me either way.

Will, did you sell your 5 yearling leopards? I'm wondering how well a yearling sells compared to a new hatchling.
Heather "Team Gomberg"

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using TortForum mobile app

I think my marketing strategy is flawed, not the turtles or their sale.

I imagined a presentation of a five to six inch turtle, well started and going strong for about twice the price of a tortoise just a few weeks old, and still vulnerable to so many causes of death would have been well received. I did not communicate that well enough.

I think people saw the price and thought "wow, a 'babcocki' for $225, what a rip-off". Not being able to further see it was 10 times the weight, not pyramided, and was eating a huge range of items, both from the garden and grocery store.

Several people at the San Diego Reptile Super Show offered incredulous disbelief that they were near ten months old the first of November and as big as they were, and looking good, not pyramided. A few thought they were illegal wild caught imports.

I've seen the weird shape ones that are about the same size, and people buying them for $300 and up, so I think people just don't know what they are supposed to look like and think the ones I have are weird, for the most part.

Many comments about how 'good' a deal, but no buyers. The animals are spectacular and continue to grow well.

On the other hand all the Manouria sold at full price.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

That is interesting...

I've thought about raising some to sell at the yearling mark. Smooth and well started. That's why I wanted to ask how yours went.

Thanks for the answer.

Are you still advertising them?

 

[deadheadvet]

Will,
something to keep in mind, we have sold leopards that size for that price, however, we had them scoped so we knew what sex they were. There is something definitely to be said for tortoises well started that deserve a higher price. A lot of the beginner work is already done.

 

[Tom]

I imagined a presentation of a five to six inch turtle, well started and going strong for about twice the price of a tortoise just a few weeks old, and still vulnerable to so many causes of death would have been well received. I did not communicate that well enough.

I think people saw the price and thought "wow, a 'babcocki' for $225, what a rip-off". Not being able to further see it was 10 times the weight, not pyramided, and was eating a huge range of items, both from the garden and grocery store.

Several people at the San Diego Reptile Super Show offered incredulous disbelief that they were near ten months old the first of November and as big as they were, and looking good, not pyramided. A few thought they were illegal wild caught imports.

I've seen the weird shape ones that are about the same size, and people buying them for $300 and up, so I think people just don't know what they are supposed to look like and think the ones I have are weird, for the most part.

What a sad story. People don't even know what they are supposed to look like.

Have you posted pic here Will? I'd love to have a look. I have two or three people a week asking me for leopards. I could send them your way.

 

[Yvonne G]

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-82488.html


This is their mother:

The babies Will is selling are the ones I THOUGHT happened by immaculate conception, or at least by retained for 5 years sperm. I've since come to think that my small male is actually the culprit:

He's shown here in the middle between Tom's SA leopards at 3 years to his 5 years of age.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Will has put them up in our For Sale section. I checked them out when he did and we spoke privately about some of his husbandry details.

1- http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-78788.html
2- http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-78789.html
3- http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-78791.html
4- http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-78792.html
5- http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-78796.html

Dr., how do you raise the leopards that you sell at the larger size?

 

[FLINTUS]

Weird. No responsible keeper here lets them go at under 3 months for the most part, often 6 months+. Believe me, if you end up saying you've bought a 10 week old Russian on our UK forums you will get slated. The breeder I got one of my reds off sold him as a yearling, in fact slightly over-checked this as well as she keeps dated records. Most of the hatchlings sold in the UK are 6-12 months old.

 

[deadheadvet]

They are all kept outside in big water land tubs. Growth is staggering when outside 24/7 they are fed a varied diet. The bigger leopards were some hold backs from our group. We have a group of 2 males and 2 females. They are almost 30 years old each. The younger animals are kept where it is completely screened in so nothing can get to them. Eventually, we will add the hold backs to the existing group when they are a little older. They are almost completely blonde. Don't have any pics since the breeding group is in Florida and I'm up in NC.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Flintus, I tend to agree with not selling neonates just weeks old, but on the other hand, my friend Harold Carty who I wrote about, sold near complete term eggs to many local people in the central valley of California for the purpose that those customers wanted to experience the hatchling from 'day 1'.

My purpose was based on an experience from the mid 1990, distributing hatchling American Box turtles, and their deaths, and my semi-success at walking those folks through what happened.

We also have a contentious law here in the US restricting sale of chelonians under 4 inches in length. I was feeling out the work and acceptance of tortoises that little bit further along. I don't know what proportion of dealers/breeders skirt this issue, I don't want to be one of them.

They are for sale. I like them, but my 'keepers' for animals do not include these leopards. I have had much interest to the point of images, shipping costs estimates, etc. but no sales. Right now weather is not in the favor of a sale.

Then there appears to be some sort of trust issue. All local people who I have met with an interest becomes buyers fairly quickly. They had an initial interest, saw the animals, and bought. I don't know how to parse out if the trust is based on my relative presence, or the whole concept of internet sales etc.

I've been "out there" in the 'hobbyist' world since the early 1990's.

http://www.tortoise.org/archives/matamata.html

Thanks Yvonne for posting the images.