Racial purity in torts

[Raymo2477]

I am going to try to bred my Hermann's torts in the future. I don't want to cross breed if possible. Is the a way to ascertain if my starter stock is pure Boettgeri? I've read that due to ignorance of Hercegovenis that there has been a fair amount of cross breeding in the captive US population of Hermann's torts. And is it considered wrong to sell possible hybrids?

Thanks for any help.

 

[GBtortoises]

In short-not really. Unless you purchase the entire breeding group at once from one source that has recently imported wild caught tortoises, which is uncommon today, there is no way to guarantee that you're going to get "purebred" Eastern Hermann's. However, of the Hermann's subspecies, the absolute least that you'd have to worry about being hybridized is the Easterns. You also have to realize that if they are purchased from different sources you may or may not get babies that will grow to look just like either adult. The subspecies covers a vast range in wild and there a multiple variances of appearance and size throughout it's range. Over the years in captivity all Easterns have been bred together with little regard for their populations origin. In doing this the subspecies has begun to take on a homogenous look. In other words a Bulgarian Eastern Hermann's in the wild is a different shape, size and pattern than an Eastern Hermann's from Serbia. But over the past 5 decades in captivity they have all been bred together. So any that you purchase now that were captive born and not the direct imports are likely to share characteristics of both parents and not look exactly like either parent.
The same is the case with Dalmatians/Easterns. It is true that the former have been crossbred with the latter in captivity. Mostly because few people took the time distinguish the differences as well as some simply not caring to bother with it. For the most part, the Eastern genes are the more dominant and it shows up in the offspring. Most of the hybridized offspring that I have seen look much more like Easterns than Dalmatians. But I have not seen a lot of them. The Dalmatian subspecies while accepted in the U.S. for the most part, is not recognized anywhere else except among some German breeders and researchers. But anyone that has Dalmatians will tell you that there are many very obvious differences between them and Easterns or Westerns.

The problem with cross breeding Easterns and Dalmatians, or any other tortoise species in captivity, whether unknowingly or willingly, is that you begin to dilute the purity of the animals available in captivity. Animals that are a limited resource. This causes the traits of the original species (or subspecies) to in effect become diluted to the point that neither may eventually no longer be distinguishable in it's original form. It will also very likely create a higher demand for more pure examples of a species which in turn will mean more collected from the wild putting those populations at risk.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Giving each tortoise a DNA test is the only way I know to be absolutely certain of their subspecies "purity".

One of my females, who was CB, is probably of some Dalmatian ancestry, possibly 50/50 (sire died before I got her, so I've no idea, exactly), so any of her offspring will be sold with a disclosure of mixed ancestry. My others appear to be full Eastern, and were "ranched", but who really knows? Have toyed w/ going the DNA route, but it's pricy.

Not much help, I'm afraid.

 

[zman7590]

nomatter how hard you try they will be related :/