Ted is only a year old...

[IRTehDuckie]

Ted is only a year old, and ive found that the average yearling sulcata is about 4 to 5 inches long, and weighs around 310 to 400 grams.
I know for a fact Ted turned one year on march 5th and he is 8 and a half inches long, and he weighs 910 grama right now, double the length and almost triple the weight.
If you have seen my videos on YouTube he is a really healthy sully, and he is in almost constant sun and geta fed healthy foods all the time with constant availability.
What do you guys think could be the reason he is huge for his size? Could is be something in his genes? Or is he just one lucky tort to have almost perfect growing conditions?
It concerns me, but he is completely healthy, so not that much. Just a worried mommy

 

[qcpunk]

Here's a free bump for ya!

I'll add, just for statistical purposes, my sulcata will be a year old in Mid August, and currently TCL is 12cm (4.7") and Weighs in at 385 grams.

I believe some more information would be helpful in determining whether or not his size is healthy for him...

First (and maybe more importantly?) is whether or not the tort can raise his/her entire plastron off of the floor?

Activity level would be helpful. I liken this to Couch Potato vs Strongman; obviously a higher weight would be fine for the Strongman.

Diet? Specifics regarding the tort's diet. This could help to indicate too fatty or too protien rich of a diet, leading to overall health.

I tend to believe that slow growth is vital to a tortoise's overall health and longevity, but just how slow is appropriate and how fast is too fast? I really do no know.

I hope some of the more knowledgeable members will chime in here for ya, as I would appreciate the information as well!

 

[TortieLuver]

Qcpunk~all great questions! I' m curious to hear the answers. Do your tort have constant access to grazing or do you supply the food? That is very large for a yearling and there can be long-term problems associated with fast growth including fertility.

 

[qcpunk]

Thanks TortieLuver

I don't have much experience with it my self, but I have come across some research that points towards Fertility issues and overall significantly shortened lifespan. I wish I could relocate the articles, I will post links if I do.

I really wish I knew, more specifically, the acceptable rate of growth, (made up example, 11~14 cm at year one, 20~26cm at year two, etc)

I hope some of the top members will contribute. I am excited to hear Doc, Tom, and our other more experienced handlers' take on growth rate.

I, personally, feel that this is a pretty important topic that a lot of us can draw from. Let's keep this discussion going

 

[Tom]

Interesting topic to me. Duckie, where did you find those stats? Understand that if that is an average, it would have to count all the fast growers in the world like Cooper and all the sickly dehydrated ones that hardly grow at all. To me, an average is useless because the growth rates can vary so dramatically. Some of them barely reach 50 grams in their first year while others get over 1000.

I think that the range you listed would be normal for one that got the dry routine and managed to survive it. However, I think the weight of Ted is more "normal" for one raised with proper hydration and humidity.

My thoughts on "fast" growth: When I set out to prove that humidity and hydration were the key to raising smooth healthy sulcatas and leopards, it never occurred to me that it would have any effect on growth rate. It does. I used to be in the "slow growth is good, and it simulates nature..." camp. With what I have seen and done in the past 4 years, I now think that stuff is complete bunk. It was an attempt to explain our inability to raise a smooth sulcata and it did not fix the problem because fast growth was NOT the problem. Slow growth may be better for some species, like the temperate Testudo who are genetically programmed to shut down for months out of every year, I do not yet know how this relates to them, but I am certain that this does not apply to sulcatas. Some people point to aestivation during the hot dry months for sulcatas in the wild. Guess what. It ain't hot under ground, and they load their burrows with enough food to last through the dry season at the end of the rainy season. Anything said about growth rate for wild sulcatas in their first year is just speculation and inference, since NO ONE knows what they do, where they go , or what they eat even. My statements are based a little on deductive reasoning of what must be happening over there, and a lot on what works and what fails in captivity.

I have never heard of fast growth having any effect on fertility. However, it might make sense if these statistics were compiled any time before five years ago. To grow a sulcata fast in the dry past you would almost have to feed them an inappropriate high protein diet. Couple that with chronic dehydration, and low fertility would not surprise me. We will know in another 6-8 years if this "wet" routine and the resulting faster, but still healthy growth, will have any effect on fertility. I'm betting that it will not.

All I am doing with my babies is simulating the wet season that happens naturally over in Africa when these guys hatch. During the wet season marshes form, where baby sulcatas can drink or soak as they see fit. Humidity is understanably very high. And there is all the food a baby can eat every where around him. So they get soaked often, have high humidity and eat as much as they want. So funny that my methods were called "unnatural" when now it seems that dry, thirsty and hungry is so "unnatural" for this species as a hatchling...

 

[RonHays]

Thanks for that explanation Tom. I was wondering about that myself. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[IRTehDuckie]

qcpunk = yes he can lift his entire body up off of the ground, and he is VERY active, his diet is all good, gets a lot of grasses and things, we have him out in the yard most days so he is free to graze on grasses and weeds most of the day, and when it is too cold he had a diet of mixed greens, and weeds and grasses we take from the yard, he loves his dandelions!

Tom = I found those stats just googling yearling sullys and looking at the results, but those were the most average i did find, but he does have food readily available to him, and we do try to keep it somewhat humid in his tank, but michigan is very humid in the summer, and he does graze a lot. He doesn't have a high protein diet, im very cautious with that, i know it can be detrimental to them in the long run, and I want this little guy to live as long as he can.

 

[qcpunk]

Duckie, I would say that based on your reply, that things are progressing nicely and you should expect to have quite the large tort a lot quicker than you might expect! It sounds like you've definitely got a Strongman on your hands! ;D

IMHO, as long as they are active enough, can lift themselves, and have a solid diet with proper hydration, you're in Good To Go territory.

My tortie has nearly the same conditions, with lots of outdoor exposure and grazing, with dandelion also being a fav. I am, however, Jealous of your humidity up there! I am in AZ, and although we are into our Monsoon season now, the humidity still barely creeps above 30% during the day...on a stormy day! LOL.

At any rate, I'm confident that you've got things well handled for the lil...err..big guy!

 

[IRTehDuckie]

yay! its about time that i can relax about how big he is, i just love Ted so much, i just want him to be okay lol thanks a lot guys! =]]

 

[Mgridgaway]

This is probably a duh-type question, but did you buy Ted as a hatchling, or could he have possibly been a little older to begin with and is making up for lost time due to poor conditions previous to your purchase? Just a thought

 

[TankTheTortoise]

I heard the amount of direct sunlight/heat lamps they get does affect growth rate.

 

[IRTehDuckie]

Ted was a hatchling, and no question is a stupid one!! I know the guy who breeds them, so Ted was definitely a hatchling!