Tort was "free to great home" SHOULD’VE been "TERRIBLE OWNERS. NEEDS RESCUING" PICS

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loogielv

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Someone was offering a Russian Tortoise (Horsfield Tortoise) for free to a good home. Let me start at the beginning.

The Advert:
Below is an exact copy of the advert of this Russian Tortoise.

Russian Tortoise Good health

Hi there i am re homing my russian tortoise. i will be very sad to
have to see him go the truth of the matter is I just had to move into
a smaller home and have dogs and birds that will be much more
traumatized if rehomed so I have chosen for the turtle to go. He is
now kept indoors I kept him in a cool environment one summer and the
heat was still to much for him. Right now I feed him organic leafy
matter (from costco) never iceberg lettuce and hardly ever romaine it
is just not as nutritional enough. I also feed him frozen mixed
veggies (run under water to take the chill off) No fruit except maybe
a bite once a month it is not good for them! He will come with his
home which is a glass terrarium that is approx 2.5X2.5 and about 8-9
inches deep. I change his substrate about once per month and he does
NOT STINK. He is a nice pet and will walk around outside on the floor
etc. The weather just has to be right because he does not like cold or
hot. I would like for him to go to a home with tortoise experience. I
am in NO HURRY his well being is of most concern.
If you would like to
give my tortoise a new home please send your info and a little bit
about yourself, what his new environment will be and how you will care
for him. Again his well being is most important in my decision of
letting him go to a new home.


<snip>

***Below is some IMPORTANT Information to know before you email me****

Russian Tortoises are grazers and enjoy broad leaf plants. The best
diet is a variety of weeds (leaves and flowers). Dandelion is a
favorite. For detailed diet information:http://www.russiantortoise.org
Water:


The person then went on to copy most of the diet and housing information from russiantortoise.org. Seems pretty good right? Seems like only the well being of the tortoise is concern #1 yes? Seems like this person has done some research and truly cared whether they were giving the tortoise the best possible life huh?
I responded to the advert and after some email "interviews" was selected to receive this tortoise. 2 days later, I met the "caregivers".

The Pickup:
I could've punched the people in the temple with a screw driver I was so mad when I seen him. It was truly pitiful. I knew he was in an undersized tank from the original advert. I also knew the tank was glass, which as we know is a no-no, but still, it's not unheard of in the casual pet keeper world.
What I didn't know was that he only had about a half inch of dirty, dingy, dusty, crumbled bark as substrate. It was so shallow that when he walked, his feet were basically resting on the glass. He had one Tupperware bin for water, and one old lid for a food dish.

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Can you spot the tort?
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Hard to see him with all that camouflage isn't it? He was so caked in dirt and "bark mud" that it took me a second to find him. I shouldn't be so harsh on the owners though. He wasn't totally covered in dirt. He was also covered in his own feces a lot. :( Simply awful.

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His poop was easily a half inch thick on the bottom of his shell. I couldn't even listen to his breathing without gagging from the smell.

He had rubbed his nails on his front feet down to nubs trying to get a grip on the glass.
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(blurry, but there's better ones later)

He had developed a real talent for getting grip by scooting backwards across the tank instead of walking like an actual tortoise. :(
I'm so mad as I type this, I can't even see straight. Don't misunderstand, I'm not mad because I got swindled into taking a poorly kept tort, I'm mad because these people pretended to care about this animal. I would've respected them more if they said "we're dirtbags and have been neglecting this creature for months. Please help him" NO such luck. If the previous owners are reading this, I hope you come back as a turtle in the worst pet store in the world. You should honestly be ashamed of yourself.

Moving on.

The transition:

I quickly gave him a bath in a 5 gal bucket. I normally would've let him use the bath, but I knew I'd have to change the water a few times during this bath.
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Notice how his butt is up against the side of the bucket? That's because when I put him in, he used his talent and scooted backwards. He was very active, but extremely grumpy and skittish. I don't blame him one bit.

A pretty bad shot of his back feet. He didn't rub the nails down on those, it appears as though he rubbed his toes completely off. Except one long one.
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Better pics later.

I took the bath time to dump his crap bark out and filled his tank with 60% topsoil and 40% play sand. I'm going to continue using this tank for the winter, and then it's an outside pen in the nice Las Vegas weather until it gets too hot.

I also covered the sides of the glass with felt to block the view out. He quickly decided he didn't like it.
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I ended up hot gluing the felt up. He agreed that it's tolerable. :)

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The Health:
You can see some serious stuff happening on his shell. I really want some insight on the condition of his shell if anyone can offer it.
A shot showing his rubbed down front nails. Also you can see some of the chipping on the shell.
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Here you can see his one toe. It looks like theres 2 in this pic, but the upper toe is really just the top of his foot. There's only 1 to be seen on each back foot
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More of the same.
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A shot showing some of the chipping on his shell and his one toe is really visible on the bottom foot.

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I put a little cardboard box in the corner as a home for him, but he decided the best view is from the roof.
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The red is just the color of the box.

The white spots are obviously a concern. but from close inspection, I really get the feeling it's from an old incidident with a dog, or some old flaking. I'm quite sure there was no UVB for this guy and that probably has something to do with it too.
I think I'll let the pictures do the talking for me.
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The back feet
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His new setup
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"Get the hell out of my way house. I'm taking a nap right there, and you're in my damn way!"
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Tons more pics, but mostly of the same thing if anyone is interested at http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b372/loogielv/Russian Tort/

The vet is on the schedule this week, but please offer any advice. I purchased some Vita shell and he's received two treatments already.

Also, he hasn't eaten in the 3 days I've had him. He sleeps A TON (from about 2pm until about 8am the next morning) but he is extremely active when he's awake. Crashing and banging all over the place. Takes his own baths, and apparently relocates his living quarters :)

I sure do like this guy (or girl I guess. hrmm) and I only want the best for him!
 

Karyn

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Thank goodness you found him! He's looking better already. There are more experienced people on the forum who can give you great advice. (I'm very new to tortoises.) I don't think, though, that you are supposed to put Vita shell on his shell.

Great job saving him!
Karyn
 

Kristina

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I disagree with using Vitashell or any other product that goes on the shell, for the most part. He needs some first aid treatment, but regularly treating the shell with rubbed on products is a no-no IMHO.

The flaking areas look like burns. It is right down to the bone, poor baby.

I am sure that Yvonne or Danny will have some good ideas on what to do for the shell. Poor little kid, I can't believe someone would let him get in that condition.

Kristina
 

TKCARDANDCOIN

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It looks like a dog used this poor tort for a chew toy IMHO.I think you did the right thing by cleaning her up and applying a rub of vitashell on her.It will moisturize her shell and condition it also.I would continue warm water soaks and change up her diet to some dark leafy greens(looks like you already have) and get a uvb bulb on her for atleast 8 hours a day.She is one lucky tortoise to have such a Kind Person take her in!Thanks and good luck.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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RE: Tort was "free to great home" SHOULD’VE been "TERRIBLE OWNERS. NEEDS RESCUING" PI

Vitashell is NOT good for the tortoise, please stop using it. The spots look like old shell rot, so they will stay looking like that.
I would get rid of the felt and take a sheet of newspaper and put it on the outside of the tank so he can't see out. Russians are really weirded out about soaking so it might be better for the tort if you just put a soaking pool inside the tank and let the tort chose to soak or not.
I'd get some Spring Mix from the produce section and feed that. Grated zucchini is something they can't resist. My Russian loves cooked squash, so why don't you get some squash one that's orange or red inside. I don't know the different names, Acorn would be one. Anyway cook some squash (10 minutes in the microwave) and I'll bet he can't refuse that. Clean substrate would be nice and make it damp. I'd try a plant pot for a hide, altho mine also has a cardboard box for a hide and sometimes she gets inside and most times she buries herself behind it. Keep a light on him for about 12-13 hours so he doesn't try to hibernate.
Welcome to the group. Do you have a reptile Vet where you are? If you don't let us know and we will find one close to you...good luck and keep us posted.
 

Yvonne G

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I think you were right in your "dog chewed" assessment. The white spots on the shell and probably the missing toes are from old chews. I don't advocate using any shell dressing. It invites dirt and might cause overheating. I know you took a lot of time setting up his habitat, but my advice would be to put the felt on the OUTSIDE of the tank, that way he can't get it all messed up. You can even use newspaper or any kind of paper, but put it outside the tank. The advert suggested that the tortoise didn't like it too hot or too cold, and I'm sure you know that that is wrong. They have to have a nice hot spot where they can warm up. Its probably warm enough in your house at night for no habitat heat, but during the day he should have a light to warm him up. Since you brought his "home" with him, there shouldn't be any acclimation time required. Far as he's concerned, he's still in the same place he's been. So not eating is a bit of a worry. Russians (and yours is a boy, by the way) are good eaters. You might have to feed him what he's used to eating, but I'd warm up the frozen veggies a bit more than just running them under the faucet. Then you gradually introduce more variety, bit by bit.

I'm glad, for the tortoise's sake, that you were the one who was "selected" to take him home. Good job!!

Yvonne

Oh, and WELCOME TO THE FORUM! We're very glad to have you here.
 

Crazy1

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Hi loogielv, Welcome to the forum. I too think someone used it as a chew toy from the markings on the shell especially the long thin lines on the top of the Carapace look like they may be tooth marks. And Yes that may be why the missing toes.
I agree with Maggie and Yvonne. Vita shell has oils and waxes and you don't want to cover his/her shell with any of that, its a magnet for dirt, etc. Just keep it clean for now. Newspaper on the outside, or you can tape the felt outside the enclosure. If an enclosure is too small the tort will pace and claw the walls, be it glass or wood and wear down its nails to the nubs and then some. Especially a square enclosure, use things that break up the walls like hides, logs, things he must crawl around but not cause him to flip over, may help. His/her nails may never grow back and his shell will always look damaged but it can heal. Sounds as if this little guy/girl has had a hard life for a while. I know it probably does not need to be said but I will anyway. If you use a UVB bulb do not have anything between it like screen or glass as it will stop the UVB rays from entering the area. Looks like this little one has now fallen into good hands. Someone who will truly care for it. Good Luck with him/her keep us posted on him.
 

loogielv

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thanks so much for all the kind replies everyone.

I'm using a mercury vapor bulb so the uvb is taken care of, as well as the basking spot. The spot gets to about 92degrees and the probably 96 to the top of his shell, so should be good on that end too.

As far as getting him frozen veggies, what would you recommend? carrots is the only thing I can think of that he should have. peas and broccoli and any other frozen veggie is usually a no no, but maybe just to jump start the eating?

the Vitashell is put on before his daily bath (every 2 days actually). I let it dry out, then wash it all off and then he takes his bath and I can honestly say the difference after using it is night and day. The shell just has a look of revitalization. I know majority of you have recommended against it, but please do some research on it and then let me know. There's a few videos on youtube about it and many people have been using it for even active shell rot and it's helping.

He's very active otherwise, wakes up, goes to his basking spot, sticks his head out nice and far and chills until it's time to redecorate.

He also has a soaking dish in his house that gets changed daily.
 

Crazy1

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loogielv, I have done some research on this product, unless you use soap oils and wax will not wash off with just water, and even my vet (tort and exotic vet) recommends against it. It may make it look nice but he said the best is just a cleaning and if needed antibiotic ointment. But He is your tort you do what you feel is best for him. that is just my opinion. I am glad he seems to be doing better. I would try the frozen carrots and mix them with leafy greens hopefully he will start eating well for you soon.
 

Yvonne G

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From your original post, I had the impression that he was being fed the frozen mixed vegetables. That is a mixture of green beans, lima beans, carrots and corn. This is NOT the best diet for a tortoise, but if its what he is used to seeing as "food" that's what you need to feed him. I would chop up some escarole (or any of the "good" greens) really small and mix it in with the thawed/frozen mixed vegetables. After about a week, mix in a bit more, and keep increasing this over time until you have eliminated the veggies altogether.

Yvonne
 

tortoisenerd

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Best wishes; you've already got some great advice.

I'd also say no to Vita Shell, and I've done a lot of research on the subject.
 

Redfootedboxturtles

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I didnt read any of the replys. Ive seen worse, your russian should be fine. That white part will never grow back to look like the rest of the shell. Maybe in years. Feed your russian Hibiscus leaves if you can get them. Buy a plant at lowes and plant it in your yard. Free food, pretty plant and your tort will love them.
 

Laura

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Education is the key.. That is why groups like this are SO valuable!!!! There is no excuse these days for not knowing or not being able to find the correct info.
Squash is one of my russians faves. Zucchini. Green or yellow. dice it up and give it a try. Also..the purple leaves in the Spring Mix is what he goes for first.
Good luck with him. He is very lucky.
 

loogielv

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hey all, i'm sorry i wasn't getting emails saying there were replies. figured i'd check on the off chance...

Ok, i'll start some more research on the vitashell. I really gotta say, his shell just seems a whole lot better afterwards for a day or so. I'm not even considering shine or anything like that. you know when you rub lotion on, and several hours later you notice your skin is smooth and just feels healthier. thats the way this feels. he's only gotten 3 treatments and I try my best to wash and rub it all off. I try to let it dry fully and it seems to come right off when it's washed after that. if it's a little wet, then i need to wash a bit more to clean it up.

anyway, i'll spend the better part of tomorrow researching it.

a few quick updates. After 3 days of no eating, (not only did he not eat, he would just mow over his salad, never even pausing to smell or anything) I put 3 small pieces of banana in there. No more than 20 seconds later he was chowing down.
So the next day, smart me, I had a plan. a nice green salad. (collard and mustard greens, kale, parsley, timothy hay, zoomed grassland mix. calcium/d3 supplement. and then i mashed about 1/10 of a banana and smeared it over the top and slightly middle of the pile. And the little turd picked all the bananas out!
So i figured oh well, he'll eat when he's ready. This morning i just threw in the green stuff w/ some calcium/d3 and let him alone and came home to a clean rock!
He also has done his biz in the bath a few times and drank tons of water tonight when he took one. Things are really looking up. I'll keep him in this little tank for another month or so and then it's either a table top, or an outside pen. The outside pen in Las Vegas sun would be great until 40c beams down!
 

tortoisenerd

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Hi there! Glad you've stopped with the banana because that's not the best idea. Also, I like how you have him eating good greens, but I'd watch the types more closely. The collards parsley and mustard greens are high in oxalic acid, and although they are good nutrition sources, they should not be the bulk of the diet as the oxalic acid can bind the calcium. The kale is another green to feed in smaller quantities as it can cause goiter as well as it has the oxalic acid. A great alternative is spring mix--for the money, you get about the best you can get when feeding one tort. Lots of variety, and no chopping required.

http://russiantortoise.org/oxalates.pdf
http://www.russiantortoise.org/russiantortoisediet.htm
http://www.geocities.com/kyryah/tort2.html
http://www.turtlestuff.com/avoidthese.html
http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/nutrientanalysis.htm

My personal opinion. I think what you've done for the tort is really great though. Sometimes the lists of "safe" foods for torts can be a little misleading because they don't tell you in what quantities.
 

nrfitchett4

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considering spring mix is mostly different kind of lettuce, I disagree that it is "better" for your tort that mixed greens. yes your getting more oxalic acid, but also a lot more calcium.
I didn't know that collards were high in oxalates. Never heard that, considering it is the green of choice for igs.
 

Meg90

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Just making an observation, nrfitchett4, but after seeing your recent posts, it seems as if you like to argue alot. I find myself bristling at the language you are using in each one of your posts. I don't know if this is intentional or not, but it always seems to me like you are gearing up for an argument.

That being said, spring mix IS good for tortoises. I don't know how long you have had yours, but every experienced tortoise owner has recommended it to me as a staple, along with other various greens and weeds added to the diet as well. (as well as various veggies and a minimal amount of fruit)

I also do not know why you continue to compare tortoises to iguanas. They are two completely different animals. As far as I am concerned, it is like comparing goats to house dogs. There is no point.
 

Millerlite

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Spring mix is good, it has variety in it. I always used spring mix, and of course i gave them grasses, and variety outside the mix, variety is the key to tortoises, they become a pain when they only eat one thing, lol.
 

nrfitchett4

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Meg90 said:
Just making an observation, nrfitchett4, but after seeing your recent posts, it seems as if you like to argue alot. I find myself bristling at the language you are using in each one of your posts. I don't know if this is intentional or not, but it always seems to me like you are gearing up for an argument.

That being said, spring mix IS good for tortoises. I don't know how long you have had yours, but every experienced tortoise owner has recommended it to me as a staple, along with other various greens and weeds added to the diet as well. (as well as various veggies and a minimal amount of fruit)

I also do not know why you continue to compare tortoises to iguanas. They are two completely different animals. As far as I am concerned, it is like comparing goats to house dogs. There is no point.

explain to me the bad language that I have used.
Actually, torts and igs have a lot of the same environmental and dietary needs. While I won't say I'm an expert in anything. I do know that most lettuces have very little nutritional value as well as a high water content and low fiber. All of which are opposite of what sulcatas eat in the wild. I'm not saying that spring mix is completely evil, just that it is not the healthiest thing. How much spinach is a tort supposed to have?

By the way, I'm not the one pm messaging people. Everything I have to say, I say in the open. And you never responded when I answered your pm.
 

Meg90

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Ahem. Look at your response. Swearing isn't necessary for bad language. I also said it SEEMED like you were. A simple "no, I am not trying to start anything" would have sufficed, but you took that and went on the attack instead.

There is no spinach in the Organic Spring Mix I buy. You can chose brands that do not have in it the mix.

If you fed your tortoise on an iguana diet, you would cause it harm. Too much sugar.
 
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